Please allow me this seemingly dumb question...

I am a cheapskate but not when it comes to guns. I reason that the time, ammo and money invested in fixing up a junker would make expensive guns a good deal less expensive by comparison.

Hi-points at least function (.380 that I tried was passable) but most of the others of that category are truly junk. I second the Makarov recommendation.

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Oleg "peacemonger" Volk

http://dd-b.net/RKBA
 
I've said this before.

It should be possible to make an inexpensive and reliable gun for $150.

Just a marketing issue.

I think the cheapest, decent new guns are
the NAA mini revolvers. Grant they are 22s and SA - but you can't have everything.

Then you move into the $200 range.
 
Dear Friends,

I want to take issue with the questions, "How much is your life worth?"

If I knew I was going to be in a horrible high-speed head-on auto collision tomorrow, I suppose I would mortgage the farm, sell the kids for medical experiments, and whatever else was necessary to buy a Ford Expedition or something else huge and expensive and indestructible.

But although I might have a wreck sometime, I also have to live with the car I drive on a day-to-day basis. It has to fit in the garage, I have to buy gas for it, and I have to buy it in the first place.

So although my life is worth more than $12,000 to me, that is how much I paid for the car I actually drive. It is big enough to give me a good chance in a collision, yet small enough to fit in the garage and get decent gas mileage.

I use the same reasoning on guns. If I knew I were going to be in a shoot-out at work tomorrow, I might rack up $1,500 on the credit card for a Les Baer and spend $200 on a bunch of .45 to practice with tonight. But I don't know when or if the shootout will come, and I have other items in the budget that have already laid claim to the $1,700!

So although I am glad high-end pistols and ammo are available for those of you who choose them, I feel just fine in recommending to budget-minded friends some inexpensive but high-quality firearms for personal defense.

For a while, I used an old Taurus 85, from when they had that perfect walnut grip. It was easy to shoot well at 7 yards, easy to conceal, cheap to feed, and cost only $175 used.

I've now gone to a Makarov, which I love. It is slim, not too heavy, and has a grip just big enough for my hand. It cost me $170, including extra mags and a nice-looking surplus leather holster.

Incidentally, I also had a Kahr K9 in stainless, which shot great but showed rust at the mere sight of perspiration. I have been much happier with my two sub-$200 guns than with my one foray into the higher-priced models.

To conclude, my life is worth approximately $1 billion, but I can't spend it all on a pistol!

Respectfully,

JP

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Nehemiah 4:18 " ... and each of the builders wore his sword at his side as he worked."
 
Agreed with all said thus far. The best "combat use" of the Lorcin/Jennings/Bryco/Davis type is to load lots of 'em into a cannon and use 'em as grapeshot.

:)

Now, if you're on a severe budget and need a basic defensive handgun *now*, your best bet is probably an old S&W model 10, Taurus .38 or some other basic .38Spl small or medium frame wheelgun. Capt'n John is right on the money there. Older American S&W or Colt is best if it's in good shape, Taurus isn't bad, I'd mostly say avoid Rossi. Avoid "Charco" at all costs, but if you can find a genuine Charter Arms (not the later Charco) Undercover in good shape, snatch it up - that's my baby, GREAT gun ahead of it's time. There's millions of these old 5shot and 6shot critters floating around. You need to know how to "check out" a wheelgun...I think I still have some text on that at home, EMail me if interested and I'll do up a post here. The checkout proceedure is involved, but doesn't take long.

The other good budget choices are the "commie slideguns", the Makarov-family and the old CZ-52, especially if that latter is converted to standard 9mm Para instead of the oddball Tokarev (sort of a ".25 Magnum from hell"). I'm no expert on these, see also www.makarov.com for expert info.

The best deal on a new piece is probably the KelTecs...see also www.ktog.com but don't forget those folks are...kinda "fan clubbish". The fact that a series of low-cost guns has developed a loyal following is a very good recommendation in and of itself but they often need "minor tweaking" to get 'em to run right. But the fanbase provides the info to allow you to do such tweaks. The KelTecs are certainly a major step up from the Lorcin/Davis/Jennings types, for damnsure :).

Jim
 
Jim,
...sort of a ".25 Magnum from hell", you said. :D
I appreciate a good turn of phrase!


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Those who use arms well cultivate the Way and keep the rules.Thus they can govern in such a way as to prevail over the corrupt- Sun Tzu, The Art of War
 
I will 2nd Jim March recommendation you seriously check out Kel-Tec in 9 m/m. The old ones, like mine, needed 100 rounds to break them in. I understand the newer ones (last couple years production) are as near flawless out-of-the-box as anything.
 
I will 2nd Jim March recommendation you seriously check out Kel-Tec in 9 m/m. The old ones, like mine, needed 100 rounds to break them in. I understand the newer ones (last couple years production) are as near flawless out-of-the-box as anything.
 
Yeah, these are pretty much junk. With the exception of the Pheonix HP22, I have heard many good things about that, and from the article about it in American Rifleman, it seems to have more saftys then a, well its got like 4 or something. But most Pheonix's are little cheap@$$ throw guns. Jennings has a family in the crap gun buisness, his daughter is married to the guy who ownes Davis. Lorcin's are notoriously bad, cant say much about a Hi-Point. Besides looking ugly and hearing some bad things. Just stick with the good stuff. Good low price small guns are Kel-Tec's, Kahr's(midium priced), Taurus's, Makarovs.

[This message has been edited by MrBlonde (edited July 21, 2000).]
 
I have heard of Jennings and Bryco having their cast slides crack in under 100 rounds.
 
I think that Glenn has a point, you could make a good gun for less than $200, but then you run into marketing problems. Look at Ruger, I've seen NIB P95s for $250. Its an excellent gun, but a lot of us "Gun Snobs" tend to look down on them as cheap.

For instance I used to think that Makarovs where junk commie guns, untill I started listening to all of the the mak addicts on this board and actually looking at them. They are a hell of a gun for the money. Now I want to get one to plink with.

Back on the topic, the only one of those guns listed that I have any experience with is a Jennings, and it jammed about every other shot. And the malfunctions usually required a pocket knife to clear. Beats throwing rocks, but not much more than that.

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Ordering deadline for TFL shirts & hats is July 29, don't miss out. www.thefiringline.com:8080/forums/showthread.php?threadid=37865
 
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