I just saw a discount dealer on thge net and looked through all the manufacturers. The prices looked competitive for the major high-quality brands. Then I looked at Lorcin, Phoenix, Jennings. Are these brands real junk ? I'd like to save $ as much as the next guy, but $100-150 for a 9mm sounds too good to be true.
Please allow me this seemingly dumb question...
- Thread starter RH
- Start date
Stephen A. Camp
Staff In Memoriam
Hello. This is not a dumb question in my view. First, it IS too good to be true. In my estimation if you buy a poorly-made firearm, the price you paid can be added to the cost of a "good" gun. Even if one of the guns you mention works, it probably won't last if you shoot it very much at all. In my opinion, you are better off to save your money and buy a better grade firearm. Best and good luck.
No offense to the companies, but they are real junk. Hi-Point is also up there.
They're not made to be high-quality pieces, though, and do serve a purpose. I'd never buy one.
In fact, I had a case once where a guy was trying to unload a Jennings, and shot his friend in the chest (I'm a criminal defense lawyer). They charged my guy with criminal negligence. My best witness was the cop who admitted that these types of guns are horrible, and often go off without provocation.
My 2 cents.
They're not made to be high-quality pieces, though, and do serve a purpose. I'd never buy one.
In fact, I had a case once where a guy was trying to unload a Jennings, and shot his friend in the chest (I'm a criminal defense lawyer). They charged my guy with criminal negligence. My best witness was the cop who admitted that these types of guns are horrible, and often go off without provocation.
My 2 cents.
Two decades ago I purchased my first handgun. At the time of the purchase, I knew absolutely NOTHING about firearms. I went in looking for a snubbie .38 Special for self defense and walked out with a .22LR SA pistol. While in the store, I saw a BDA380 in nickel finish but it was around 150 more than the 22 and to save money, I didn't get it.
Well, any time you try to same money by cutting corners, you usually end of paying for it. The 22 jammed at least once per mag and after several months, I traded it in (at a significant loss) and bought the BDA380 which I should have got in the first place. The point being, don't get something that you really don't want to save money because there is a good chance that you will be unhappy with it.
Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD
Well, any time you try to same money by cutting corners, you usually end of paying for it. The 22 jammed at least once per mag and after several months, I traded it in (at a significant loss) and bought the BDA380 which I should have got in the first place. The point being, don't get something that you really don't want to save money because there is a good chance that you will be unhappy with it.
Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD
These guns use cheap alloys in cast frames that are poorly manufactured and finished.
Slides break in the Jennings -- this in the 22. They fly off the rear and hit the shooter in the head.
They're more or less copies of some fairly well known semi-autos, but the poor quality of fit, finish and materials makes them dangerous.
Kalifornia has come up with a "safety test" for semi autos -- melting temps and "drop tests" are two criteria. These guns melt and they fire when dropped on a hard surface.
Accuracy stinks too . . .
Slides break in the Jennings -- this in the 22. They fly off the rear and hit the shooter in the head.
They're more or less copies of some fairly well known semi-autos, but the poor quality of fit, finish and materials makes them dangerous.
Kalifornia has come up with a "safety test" for semi autos -- melting temps and "drop tests" are two criteria. These guns melt and they fire when dropped on a hard surface.
Accuracy stinks too . . .
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
I have only used Lorcin and Jennings but they are both junk. You will never be able to resell them for half of what you paid (unless you get involved in illegally reselling firearms) and the guns themselves work intermittently and don't stand up to regular use.
I haven't used the Phoenix and can't comment much on it. It uses the same cheap construction as the Lorcin and Jennings but since it is made in Canada, I believe it does have to meet the stricter requirements for imported handguns provided by the 1968 GCA.
Does anybody know if this is true or do they have an exemption under NAFTA?
I haven't used the Phoenix and can't comment much on it. It uses the same cheap construction as the Lorcin and Jennings but since it is made in Canada, I believe it does have to meet the stricter requirements for imported handguns provided by the 1968 GCA.
Does anybody know if this is true or do they have an exemption under NAFTA?
well i have a J22, it is NOT reliable,
no way to lock the slide back, saftey button will disingage with a vagrant thought, anything other than cci stingers and it is a single shot,magazines are cheap press together with weak springs,zinc alloy everything except chrome barrel and breechface. there are some steel screws(they rust). that all being said.
it is small and light,it has never failed to fire the first shot,it is cheap.
so to my mind it is better than no gun at all,but not by much.
rms/pa
BTW mine is for sale or trade 50$ or a readable copy of "witches of Karres "by james schmitz.
no way to lock the slide back, saftey button will disingage with a vagrant thought, anything other than cci stingers and it is a single shot,magazines are cheap press together with weak springs,zinc alloy everything except chrome barrel and breechface. there are some steel screws(they rust). that all being said.
it is small and light,it has never failed to fire the first shot,it is cheap.
so to my mind it is better than no gun at all,but not by much.
rms/pa
BTW mine is for sale or trade 50$ or a readable copy of "witches of Karres "by james schmitz.
railroader
New member
The phoenix is made in ontario california. There is a review of it in the american rifleman august 2000.
Thanks, all. I'm learning as I get older that sometimes you really do get what you pay for, and sometimes it's really worth it, whether it's good shoes or personal defense. this discussion just further solidifies my decision to go with a Ruger 9 when the time (and $) comes.
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Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God.
1 Peter 2:16.
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Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God.
1 Peter 2:16.
May I submit for consideration-Makarov pistols.
Inexpensive but not sacrificing quality. They are easily obtained for $150 or so, ammo costs you $5/50, few parts (27) that rarely break. Put all this together with quarter sized holes at self defense distances (7 yds or less) and utter reliability, what more can you ask for an inexpensive 9mm? I get heckled alot by friends with their Sigs, Glocks, et al and my favorite statement is "Accuracy and dependability. Any other questions?"
Inexpensive but not sacrificing quality. They are easily obtained for $150 or so, ammo costs you $5/50, few parts (27) that rarely break. Put all this together with quarter sized holes at self defense distances (7 yds or less) and utter reliability, what more can you ask for an inexpensive 9mm? I get heckled alot by friends with their Sigs, Glocks, et al and my favorite statement is "Accuracy and dependability. Any other questions?"
I am a first time poster, long time lurker but because of my experience, I wanted to share hard lessons! Approximately 2 years ago, I (not knowing better) purchases a .380 jennings and a 9mm jennings brand new for what seemed like a good deal. I purchased these weapons for self defense but soon after purchase, began running into problems.
The .380 had an ongoing problem of "light" primer strikes causing frequent misfires. At first I thought maybe it was a matter of "breaking the gun in" but problem got progressively worse. Needless to say, could not carry this weapon because it was not dependable.
I had been relatively happy with the 9mm until about 9 months after purchase when at my local range, it failed to fire. I dropped the mag out and then racked the slide only to have springs fall out into my hand!
Needless to say, at this point I felt pretty foolish about my purchases. I should also note that neither of this weapons would feed HydroShock ammo. Both would jam every time with this ammo.
I was lucky in that since both weapons (if you could call them that) were under warranty, my local gun dealer took them back on trade for new guns (gave me all but 25 dollars back in on trade!). I now have a SW 5906 (used gun purchased before they got in bed with you know who) and a Taurus pt111. Both guns fire any ammo I feed them and fire every time the trigger is pulled. Thanks to the folks posting here on TFL I am now a much better informed person.
The .380 had an ongoing problem of "light" primer strikes causing frequent misfires. At first I thought maybe it was a matter of "breaking the gun in" but problem got progressively worse. Needless to say, could not carry this weapon because it was not dependable.
I had been relatively happy with the 9mm until about 9 months after purchase when at my local range, it failed to fire. I dropped the mag out and then racked the slide only to have springs fall out into my hand!
Needless to say, at this point I felt pretty foolish about my purchases. I should also note that neither of this weapons would feed HydroShock ammo. Both would jam every time with this ammo.
I was lucky in that since both weapons (if you could call them that) were under warranty, my local gun dealer took them back on trade for new guns (gave me all but 25 dollars back in on trade!). I now have a SW 5906 (used gun purchased before they got in bed with you know who) and a Taurus pt111. Both guns fire any ammo I feed them and fire every time the trigger is pulled. Thanks to the folks posting here on TFL I am now a much better informed person.
Yes, when I bought my first handgun I didn't know how much good guns cost. So of course when I saw the price tag I thought it was too much money and bought a cheap gun instead. Big mistake. If I'd bought the good gun, I'd still have something to show for my money. Instead, the cheap gun broke down long ago and is gone, along with what I paid for it.
Ozark9mm:
"I should also note that neither of this weapons would feed HydroShock ammo. Both would jam every time with this ammo."
You're probably lucky they wouldn't feed the HydroShocks. You might otherwise have a slide embedded in your forehead!
Dick
Want to send a message to Bush? Sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/monk/petition.html and forward the link to every gun owner you know.
"I should also note that neither of this weapons would feed HydroShock ammo. Both would jam every time with this ammo."
You're probably lucky they wouldn't feed the HydroShocks. You might otherwise have a slide embedded in your forehead!
Dick
Want to send a message to Bush? Sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/monk/petition.html and forward the link to every gun owner you know.
RH. I havd many friends ask me the same question as what you just posted. My answer is always,"What is your life worth?" Please let me repeat that. What is your life worth?
Buy the best you can afford is good advice. I go it one further. Buy better than you can afford. After all. It is your life, or the life of a loved one you are concerned with.
Paul B.
Buy the best you can afford is good advice. I go it one further. Buy better than you can afford. After all. It is your life, or the life of a loved one you are concerned with.
Paul B.
Thank you Paul B.!!! I can't believe it took 15 posts before somebody cut to the chase and asked "what's your life worth?" Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of these $2,000 custom gun guys, but if you can spend $150 on a paperweight why not spend an additional $100 for a decent revolver or go hog wild and splurge on a $400 Glock?
If you buy the junk just to save a few bucks, your family will simply end up spending that savings on your funeral.
If you buy the junk just to save a few bucks, your family will simply end up spending that savings on your funeral.
I agree with jlflegal, who beat me to the punch. My East German Makarov is superb. I can't think of another pistol that is sold in volume that matches it.
I think you may be able to do better if you are lucky enough to find someone wanting to unload a pistol. I once bought a Star BM for $125.00 but I don't see deals like this very often.
Back to the Makarov. How good is it? Very good, it shoots little bitty groups with a two hand unsupported modified Weaver stance at 10 yards. I have only a handful of pistols that will out shoot it and they cost much more.
Regards,
Richard
I think you may be able to do better if you are lucky enough to find someone wanting to unload a pistol. I once bought a Star BM for $125.00 but I don't see deals like this very often.
Back to the Makarov. How good is it? Very good, it shoots little bitty groups with a two hand unsupported modified Weaver stance at 10 yards. I have only a handful of pistols that will out shoot it and they cost much more.
Regards,
Richard
GIT_SOME.45
New member
Thank you Ozark for sharing...
We all have valuable opinions / experience to share and help our fellow man, I too have a PRE-AGREEMENT S&W 5906 9mm.
Good gun, and factory Hi-Caps are fairly cheap and available.
Welcome aboard, and "Fire Away"...
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SHOOT,COMMUNICATE AND MOVE OUT !
[This message has been edited by GIT_SOME.45 (edited July 20, 2000).]
We all have valuable opinions / experience to share and help our fellow man, I too have a PRE-AGREEMENT S&W 5906 9mm.
Good gun, and factory Hi-Caps are fairly cheap and available.
Welcome aboard, and "Fire Away"...
------------------
SHOOT,COMMUNICATE AND MOVE OUT !
[This message has been edited by GIT_SOME.45 (edited July 20, 2000).]