Plastic guns, and the "Invisible" gun law set to expire.

T

Tom Servo

Staff
1988 All Over Again - 3D printers

No, I'm not talking about Rick Astley or Perestroika. I'm talking about the Undetectable Firearms Act. The late 1980's were scary times. Full House was in its second season, Miami Vice was really getting stale, and the Austrians were making plastic guns, which as we all know, go right through airport metal detectors without a peep.

(OK, you might have to remove a few parts to do it. OK, you might have to remove almost all the parts to do it, but stop dragging us all down with reality. People are trying to panic, here.)

The ban expired in 1998, but the threat remained, so President Bush signed it back into law in 2003. It's in effect until next year.

That is, unless Representative Steve Israel gets his way. He's an A+ booster for the Brady Campaign, and he's got to do something to prove he's still one of the true believers, so he's trying to demonize 3d printing. At least two folks have made functional (but fragile) AR-15 lowers using the new machinery, and it looks like Israel's trying to work a ban on that into a proposed renewal of the UFA.

This is worth keeping an eye on. With the exception of making NFA items or cloning guns banned from import, the Gun Control Act does not prohibit someone from making their own gun. I expect to see some sort of attempt to generate paranoia about that in the media as the anti-gunners continue to grasp at straws.
 
I don't see how this ban can feasably work. There are already several polymer receivers for a wide variety of guns out there and even polymer FCGs. And guns with those features are far from undetectable.
I just don't see how 3D printing can be specifically singled out for a ban. In order for this to work they would have to completely ban either polymer parts for firearms or private manufacture of guns. Neither of which is going to happen without a hell of a lot of resistance from gun rights groups.
 
I doubt they are trying to write a feasible ban. In fact, I imagine they will write one that is nigh-impossible to enforce or implement. I suspect the main purpose of said legislation will be to demonize those who oppose it as supporting the ownership of invisible, undetectable assault weapon baby killers by violent felons.

They'll rely on the old trick of a soundbite that sounds horrible to the average person but that requires a 30 minute dissertation by someone knowledgable in order to understand how stupid the soundbite is.
 
Like all of these laws, it'll be more in spirit than practicality. Then after one bad incident happens, they'll point to the law and strengthen it. It's not going to be bad, just a slippery slope of controlling the means of production.
 
As an update to this old thread: Rep Steve Israel, D-NY 3rd District introduced bill HR1474 that would ban so called undetectable firearms, home made firearms with non metallic receivers, and home made plastic magazines. Factory all plastic receivers, like some injection molded AR-15 receivers, and magazines are unaffected.

The law has not been updated to reflect the increased sensitivity of modern metal detectors, does not take into account modern screening processes and technologies like x-rays, and does not consider how unenforceable it is with modern $600 3D printers becoming more popular. Also many details of compliance are quite vague.

By supporting home gun smiths the NRA could further discredit the ridiculous "industry shill" meme.

The www.examiner.com and Forbes have good articles about it. Defence distributed's forum DefCAD has all of the details.

More analysis from a group that worked with Israel to draft the bill: www.publicknowledge.org/blog

Rep Israel's web page links to many articles about this issue.

In 2003 it passed by a voice vote, and unanimous consent. It better not go that way this time.

Edit: A new article by the examiner shows that plastic magazine manufactures would need to get a manufacturing FFL if the magazine body does not contain at least an once of steel.

Rep Israel also proposed and then backed down from an internet crackdown to stop the proliferation of magazine CAD files.
 
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Full House was in its second season, Miami Vice was really getting stale, and the Austrians were making plastic guns, which as we all know, go right through airport metal detectors without a peep.
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Don't forget about the Glock-7, it was ceramic. (well that was 1990 but it still comes up from time to time).

You can make a functioning AR lower out of a block of wood or a hunk of plastic and an LPC. It will function for a little while anyway. I think these would be preferable to a 3D printer.
 
While I understand part of the fear, ultimately, it boils down to the fact that if someone wants to go into a school, court house, bank *Insert gun free zone here* with such a weapon, and attempt to murder someone or many people, they're not going to give a flying rats arse if there is a law stating that they can't have a gun made out of all plastic parts in the first place.

Classic gun grabbing hysteria hyping.

Besides, these guns are single use only are they not? Any more than one round and the handgun would be more like to kill you.

*EDIT* My ignorance aside, and as it was stated later on here in this thread, I'd imagine a 100% plastic gun would more likely fall apart if it were to be fired more than a handful of times. Increased chance of hurting yourself possibly, maybe not exactly kill you.

At any rate, I don't see any major threat with these "firearms" with the current technology of plastics. Metal is still vastly superior in strength than plastics are at this time, unless I'm mistaken.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ws-as-undetectable-firearm-law-set-to-expire/
 
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Besides, these guns are single use only are they not? Any more than one round and the handgun would be more like to kill you.
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Seriously? By what, an exploding .22LR cartridge?
 
I wonder how well those plastic firing pins work and if it is melted to your hand and on fire after the first round.

Shumer was a key player in the original bill to ban guns that never existed. Maybe they should put more effort into fighting crimes where people actually are getting killed on a daily baisis instead of wasting all their time addressing crimes that do not exist.
 
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Seriously? By what, an exploding .22LR cartridge?
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I could be incorrect, but if I remember correctly the original "Liberator" plans for this 3D printed thing call for it to be .380ACP. That's rather more powerful than a .22LR, but still hardly a manstopper.

Even if the gun lasts for more than one shot the reloading process is not quick (again, IIRC). The whole thing is more proof of concept than anything else. I'm just not thinking any plastic that can be run through a 3D printer is likely to ever stand up to significant chamber pressures... I highly doubt we'll ever see a fully functioning autoloader in a 9x19 or more powerful cartridge made from nothing but plastic. Not with any technology that's currently on the horizon.
 
I think if I were going to make a "plastic gun", and if I had the skills to do this which I don't, I'd mill most of it, including the barrel out of Delrin.
 
Purely plastic guns might be undetectable by metal detectors, but what about all the other detection devices in use these days?
Are metal detectors still the ones most encountered?
 
Assuming that an all plastic gun could pass thru detectors, what about the ammo? I don't know of any all plastic ammo or did I miss a breakthru somewhere? A gun without ammo is not very effective. I guess it could shoot plastic darts?
 
Even if the gun is plastic and undetectable where are you going to get plastic ammo?

Unless the ammo is hidden in something benign. This was done in an old Clint Eastwood movie. A BG (I think it was john malkovich) tried to shoot the president with a ceramic gun. The BG got through the metal detector with 2 live rounds hidden in a rabbits foot key chain.
 
Fox news had a disappointing report on this today.

Showed a bunch of people using a printed lower on AR type uppers and went on and on about how the gun could go right through detectors. Also said that somebody was working on a plastic spring for a "clip" and made it sound like the end of the world. The guy being interviewed also went on about how we do not want people to be able to make guns in their garage and we need the law renewed to keep that illegal.

Very little of the report was in the realm of reality. Including the fact that people can make guns in there garage and it is not illegal.

The interviewer did almost nothing to address the inaccuracies and shortsighted view that was being put forth. He also helped make the guy that released the program to the net look like a cook.
 
Even if the gun is plastic and undetectable where are you going to get plastic ammo?
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You can buy plastic practice ammo. The case and projectile are plastic and it uses a primer for propellant. I think Midway has them on clearance now.

They are useless for anything but target practice in the basement and not much good for that. But it would not surprise me to see them on the news portrayed as an undetectable weapon of mass destruction.
 
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