Pistol reliability

I have several autoloaders that are trouble free... but most required some adjustment and/or selection of ammunition to get there.

I have revolvers with reduced mainsprings that require the more sensitive Federal primers, I know they require Federal primers, and I give them Federal primers. Reliability with Federal primers is excellent - my No 1 Python has had one misfire ever with a Federal primer, No 2 Python zero, and zero in any S&W but the rather hamhanded job on a .45... which I finally got straightened out. They are still target pistols, not something I would carry for defense.

There was once an alleged gunsmith at S&W who bragged that he could complete the then $75 "action job" in a matter of minutes. So did Richard Wyatt who had S&W selling an "American Guns" model, until they realized how crooked he is. This is probably the sort of company expert who worked on RickB's gun.
 
A P229, is more reliable than any revolver.
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I am assuming you have hard data to back that up?

I can jam a 229 with nothing more than an underpowered load. A load that would easily shoot from a revolver.
 
?

the best semiauto ever manufactured is the Sig P229. A P229, is more reliable than any revolver
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How about some qualification there?
I appreciate enthusiasm but that statement is quite a hyperbole.
For you to know it as a fact, it would have to be tested against every other semi auto and every revolver ever made.
You could get away fine with saying that it is the best semiauto that you have ever used and more reliable than any revolver you own or have used.
 
>I have several autoloaders that are trouble free... but most required some adjustment and/or selection of ammunition to get there. <

I bought a new G19g3 a couple years ago and have 3715 rounds through it - various brands of new and commercial reloaded ammo.

I've had 11 stoppages in that gun with 115g ammo (2065 rds.).
I've had 0 stoppages in that gun with 124g ammo (1650 rds.).

There's a lot going on in about 1/10th of a second when you fire a semiauto, and in my gun handling, it seems that little extra blowback energy with the 124g bullet improves reliability.
 
My research, when looking into an auto-loader for three gun, showed that the two most accurate guns were the Sig and the CZ. The reviews also showed that they were about tied in reliability. The only problems listed for the CZ were the breakage of the plastic recoil spring guide pin and stoppages due to hot +P ammo with the factory light recoil spring. A heavier spring always fixed the stoppages. I heard that CZ put a shorter guide pin in place to correct the breakage when using the +P ammo. The only problems with the Sig were failures with light ammo and limp wrist.
The price difference between the two was about $300 so the CZ was more attractive to me. The first thing I did when I got the gun home was to disassemble and clean (like I always do) and I made a dimensioned drawing of the guide pin so I could make one from steel if I ever needed it. I have not fired +P ammo in mine and I don't intend to but it might happen. Until I put 10 or 20000 rounds through it I will not carry it for personal defense. I have many times that number through my 357 without a single failure so that is the litmus test for reliability. (for me)
 
If you're referring to the CZ's guide rod, you can find steel alternatives if you look around.
Denis
 
I haven't had a part break in a revolver in, well, at least 30 years, close to 40 actually. I sure can't say that for my semiautos. Last one that broke was the extractor on a LEO trade in S&W 4506 that I bought for a really cheap price. 3 days later, it was back in action. I think the last revolver issue was the hand spring broke on one of my Dan Wesson 15-2's. It took longer to take the sideplate off than to install the new one. A literally 5 minute fix. I have a Sig P229, and I like it a lot, but I would trust any of my revolvers over it at this time.
 
In my very limited pistol experience, my SAR K2P has been very reliable. 650 trouble free rounds so far and it only seems to be getting better.
 
So for the sake of conversation, let's say Glocks are the most reliable pistol and will go bang every time.
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Fixed:p

So for the sake of conversation, let's say Glock has done a good job of marketing that they are the most reliable pistol and will go bang every time.
 
I know this is a semi auto forum but since revolvers have been mentioned I have a 4" Ruger Security Six .357 that was made in the 70s (pre warning) I bought it used in the about 1985 and the guy who owned it before me put 1000s of rounds through it, including full power magnum loads.

I have shot mostly mid-power, heavy bullet lead and jacketed bullets through the years since and it has yet to malfunction. The front sight blade does have a slight wiggle to it but will not drop out.

For semi autos I have found the Springfield XDs to be a very reliable platform. Springfield 1911A1 .45 (Series 70) very reliable.
Makarov 9X18 are hell for stout but in the course of shooting them a lot, I have had rare failures but this could be ammo related as I shoot Russian steel cased exclusively in these pistols.

Any of these weapons are massed produced and anything mechanical is liable to fail.
 
I can jam a 229 with nothing more than an underpowered load. A load that would easily shoot from a revolver.
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LOL what?!

Tap, rack, bang and that underpowered load is more than likely gone and it's onto the next one.

The revolver could squib.... Then again, any gun can squib.

Squibs are evil....

But a lot more gasses expel from a revolver when fired than it does from a semi-automatic. So squibs are more common in revolvers.

Slow down!:p
 
But a lot more gasses expel from a revolver when fired than it does from a semi-automatic. So squibs are more common in revolvers.
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I understand your point about squibs being "evil", but I think this statement is inaccurate.

(with the same size powder charge) a revolver does NOT expel "a lot more gasses" than a semi auto. It can't! It may SEEM like it, because some of the gas does vent through the barrel/cylinder gap, but it the total amount must be, and can only be the same from the same amount of powder.

I don't think squibs are more common in revolvers, because they are revolvers. There might be a higher number of squibs in revolvers, only because it's more common to shoot light loads in revolvers on purpose.

A squib is, by definition a round fired where the bullet does not exit the barrel.
Revolver shooters do shoot light loads on purpose, something semi auto shooters do not (and cannot) do, without turning their semis into single shots.

For this reason, you see more squibs in revolvers, but its not because its a revolver, its because very light loads can be used in revolvers, loads which are much closer to the "squib level".

When you have a squib in a semi auto, one of the ways it usually "announces" itself by failing to work the action. But that gas still vents somewhere, even though there is no cylinder gap. Is it possible a revolver cylinder gap vents enough pressure to turn a non squib into a squib? Yes, it is possible, but only if the round is right on the borderline of not having enough power to exit the barrel to begin with. I think other factors play a larger role than the barrel/cylinder gap.

I've been thinking about how we define and discuss pistol reliability, and something occurred to me, its very rare to hear specifically WHEN a failiure occurs.

We hear how someone fired X number of rounds (50, 100, 200, etc) and gets X number of failures so the gun/ammo combination is not "reliable". And, I'll agree with that, BUT, is that the standard, or the only standard to use???

Why do some people think a semi has to go hundreds of rounds flawlessly before its "reliable" but a revolver is reliable if it goes 20?

What I mean by "when" a failure occurs is, how many rounds fired (at the time) when the problem happens. What is your "reliability rating" for a pistol that say, never jams until after you've fired at least a box of ammo through it at one time? Something that never malfunctions in the first 3 or 4 magazines, or cylinders, but does begin to if you keep shooting beyond that at one sitting???

I can see where a pistol that did that would not be good for a match where you are required to shoot 100 or 200rnds during the course of fire.

But what about the real world? Not combat, but the kind of situations ordinary non military, non police people might realistically find themselves in?
Would you refuse to carry it or keep it for defense because it would always go 75 rounds flawlessly, but somewhere between 75 and 150 it would always jam??

What are your standards, and why???
 
In reality a pistol will alkways be more prone to jam than a revolver.

I do not believe eigther a pistol has to be shot in till it reliably functions. It is manufactured ro tigth if it must be shot in since rhe slide or other moving part has to first free itself from any friction and drag.

Like my Taurus PT 92 it now functions flawless with the shok buff O Ring installed after I freed it from any excess drag caused by grease.
I just shot a snake with it and no firing pin ligth steike due to grease drag anymore.
 
44AMP asked; what are your standards and why?
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My standards are higher than most I suppose but I need to be comfortable with the gun, its accuracy and its dependability. After shooting a few thousand rounds and testing it with light to maximum loads and working up an accurate load for its use I can trust it. Before that trust is built it is never carried for self defense. If the load developed for it is not up to my standard for self defense I will not carry it.
I have carried my 357 long enough that it is comfortable. I know it is reliable because I have never had any problems with it - ever. I have an extremely accurate load that will penetrate and expand reliably that I can shoot out to 100 yards. (on a man sized kill zone) I can't see that a 9mm will ever be at that level but if the load I build for it is good enough, I might carry it for self defense. I trust my revolvers without reservation. I have yet to build that trust in any auto-loader I have ever owned.
 
Good question which are the Parameters for gun reliability!

Mine would be These: If I pull out the pistol and squeeze the Trigger it has to go bang and reload reliably.
I am a strong believer in you know if the guns works reliably or not after the first 15 shots. Exception may be tight fit Hand crafted guns like 1911's.

If the gun Fails after the initial Magazine then eighter there is something broke or the design has flaws so it does not withstand dirt (in case it Needs frecuent cleaning).

Glock style or Beretta 92 style I believe do NOT Need an break in period.
 
ShootistPRS

Which is the load for your accurate 357 mag?

Most certainly you will not be at max velocity for an accurate load.
Velocity and bullet weight I would want to know.
 
Take my word.

I had a SD9VE S&W 9mm Luger pistol which is a copy of the Glock. That gun is dead on reliable 100% as much as an semi Auto can be.

I have an Taurus PT 92 AFS 9mm Luger pistol which is a copy of the Beretta 92. That gun is dead on reliable 100% as much as an semi Auto can be.

Eighter of both is the utmost reliable in semi Auto form. Any modern gun is nowadays reliable if it Comes from an US/European manufacturer.

The Glock is not as pleasant to shoot but a better carry gun and is a bit less accurate IMO. 22 oz gun.

The PT92/Beretta 92 is more pleasant to shoot but a bit less comfi to carry and is a bit more accurate (due to it's design) IMO. 34 oz gun.

If you wanna simple, get the Glock style.
If you wanna more complicated, get the Beretta style.

The Glock you almost can not overlubricate to seize it up due to it's 4 frame-slide contact Points. This is dummy proof.
The Taurus PT 92 I managed to seize up by overgreasing due to it's more than 4 frame-slide-Barrel contact Points (but it's not an issue). With this gun you have to know the gun since in an high stress Situation the controls may cost your life in a gun fight (best you don't put ever on safe the gun).
 
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