Pistol Powder
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sawdustdad
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I load a lot of .38spl with 700x using a Square Deal. Probably 10,000 rounds so far. (The 8 lb jug seems to barely be affected
. ) I find it meters adequately, (+/- <.1g) for my purposes. Chalk that up to the Dillon equipment maybe. I would say it meters the same as Unique in my press. I used 800x for some 9mm a year ago when I could not find any other powder, and it did not meter as well, for sure. Based on the sampling I did, again using the Square Deal press, I had variations of +/- .1g with an occasional .2g variation. I was well below max load, so the variation was not a safety concern. (Note: it was not really a suitable 9mm powder, it did not burn completely and, in fact, I have several hundred rounds sitting around. Will probably use them in my marlin camp carbine at some point).
Meters like Corn Flakes? Probably an exaggeration. More like Coco Puffs.
Maybe just a touch
. I've never loaded with 800X; or 700X, for that matter. I knew a fellow loader years back who showed me 700X and 800X side by side. That's all I needed to see. I'll never use it. For me, it's not a safety thing. It's just that I don't like having fits trying to get my Uniflow set properly.
Unique is bad enough. It throws a little over +/- 0.1 grain. I don't use it for any application were exceptional consistency is needed anyway. It tends to be used for general range practice.
Jim Watson
New member
I did not get good metering with 700X below 4.5 grains until I put a vibrator on the hopper. I had had instances of 1 grain charges when 2.5 was wanted for .38 wadcutters or 3.5 for 9mm econoball. The vibrator eliminated that.
700x is Just Dandy for Me
I have never understood all the carping and grousing about 700x - it meters just fine for me in both my RCBS and Lee Auto measures, even down to about 3.5 grains. I have even had decent luck with a bunch of wad cutter loads at 2.2 grains, but I do see some inconsistencies down that low. It is pretty much the same size and shape as Unique, Red Dot, etc., and those powders are very popular with relatively few people complaining about metering consistency.
I tend to think most of the people that love to bad-mouth 700x are just repeating things they have read. For those that have actually used it and found poor results, it is probably a specific issue with either technique or the measure. My powder measures are always mounted on my press, not an external stand, and they get shaken and jostled with every throw of the press handle, which keeps the powder compressed to a more uniform charge in the meter.
I have been using it for fart loads in .38 for years and love it. It also works pretty good for mid-range 38, .40 and .44 loads. And of course it makes wonderful shotgun loads. Because charge weights are so low, it is extremely economical.
I do not have any 800x, but I have been looking for some to try - from what I see in the load books about it's performance, I expect I'll like it.
I have never understood all the carping and grousing about 700x - it meters just fine for me in both my RCBS and Lee Auto measures, even down to about 3.5 grains. I have even had decent luck with a bunch of wad cutter loads at 2.2 grains, but I do see some inconsistencies down that low. It is pretty much the same size and shape as Unique, Red Dot, etc., and those powders are very popular with relatively few people complaining about metering consistency.
I tend to think most of the people that love to bad-mouth 700x are just repeating things they have read. For those that have actually used it and found poor results, it is probably a specific issue with either technique or the measure. My powder measures are always mounted on my press, not an external stand, and they get shaken and jostled with every throw of the press handle, which keeps the powder compressed to a more uniform charge in the meter.
I have been using it for fart loads in .38 for years and love it. It also works pretty good for mid-range 38, .40 and .44 loads. And of course it makes wonderful shotgun loads. Because charge weights are so low, it is extremely economical.
I do not have any 800x, but I have been looking for some to try - from what I see in the load books about it's performance, I expect I'll like it.
Unless I've been reading it differently than you have, it seems that MOST of the "complaining" is directed far more at 800-X than 700-X.
A couple things always make me laugh a bit...
One of them is the way some folks appear almost offended when you speak of their favorite powder in an unfavorable light. Not sure why this is, but it is standard fare in these discussions.
The other point that seems worthy of a chuckle is the economy angle. In my opinion, sometimes it is all these trees that obstruct our view of the forest. When we are talking .38 or 9mm, the cost of the powder approaches irrelevant.
When it comes to selecting and settling on a powder for a favorite pet load there are COUNTLESS reasons that can be used to support your argument. All of them are important, more or less. My pet 9mm load gives me -1,627- loaded rounds per pound of powder. Quick math says it is just about ONE CENT of powder per loaded round.
Sure, that is obviously better than two cents per round. However, if I can use the same powder with excellent results in other places at my load bench, and it meters well, and I can find it in stock, and it seems to run cleaner or with less heat buildup or the bottle has a prettier label... maybe half a cent or gasp, an entire penny MORE isn't the dealbreaker that I have conned myself in to thinking that it is.
Four components in a loaded round. In .38 and 9mm, it's in fourth place for cost and it's really not close.
A couple things always make me laugh a bit...
One of them is the way some folks appear almost offended when you speak of their favorite powder in an unfavorable light. Not sure why this is, but it is standard fare in these discussions.
The other point that seems worthy of a chuckle is the economy angle. In my opinion, sometimes it is all these trees that obstruct our view of the forest. When we are talking .38 or 9mm, the cost of the powder approaches irrelevant.
When it comes to selecting and settling on a powder for a favorite pet load there are COUNTLESS reasons that can be used to support your argument. All of them are important, more or less. My pet 9mm load gives me -1,627- loaded rounds per pound of powder. Quick math says it is just about ONE CENT of powder per loaded round.
Sure, that is obviously better than two cents per round. However, if I can use the same powder with excellent results in other places at my load bench, and it meters well, and I can find it in stock, and it seems to run cleaner or with less heat buildup or the bottle has a prettier label... maybe half a cent or gasp, an entire penny MORE isn't the dealbreaker that I have conned myself in to thinking that it is.
Four components in a loaded round. In .38 and 9mm, it's in fourth place for cost and it's really not close.
That's how I saw it too. For the record, I wasn't complaining about either, as I have never loaded with them. My only point is that I have had my fill of big-flakey powders with Unique. And in the big scheme of things, it's not really much of an issue anyway. But I'd rather choose a smooth flowing powder than a rough crunchy one. That was my only point. Why go down that road when one need not? Just sayin'
More agreement here. Economy is simply not a factor for me when I choose a propellant. As Sevens stated, the powder is by far the least expensive of the reloading components. There's a part of me that believes economy is why Bullseye is in such high demand. I have no evidence. It's just a frequently passing thought. For me, Bullseye is high on my demand list because it works great - economics has nothing to do with it. For clarity, I know there's many many loaders out there who like Bullseye for its performance, just like me. There's just a part of me that believes that some of its demand is generated by its economy, rather than performance.
The other thing I'll say about a powder's ability to be metered and dispensed from your measure is that well aside from a "performance" benefit that we may or may not distinguish on paper, for myself -- it is very much a confidence factor, and with it, very high value to me.
When my powder meters well and drops consistently, I have more confidence in my ammo.
When I have more confidence in my ammo, I shoot better.
Almost everyone can agree that Unique will never win any contest for "best metering" but fans of Unique usually report that a one or two tenth never seems to affect the performance of their loads. I believe them! But using that powder totally affects the way I feel about my ammo, and it makes me feel like "meh, I know I can do better."
I wouldn't even suggest that anyone else should think the same way, as I would hope they wouldn't suggest that I am wrong for my own needs.
When my powder meters well and drops consistently, I have more confidence in my ammo.
When I have more confidence in my ammo, I shoot better.
Almost everyone can agree that Unique will never win any contest for "best metering" but fans of Unique usually report that a one or two tenth never seems to affect the performance of their loads. I believe them! But using that powder totally affects the way I feel about my ammo, and it makes me feel like "meh, I know I can do better."
I wouldn't even suggest that anyone else should think the same way, as I would hope they wouldn't suggest that I am wrong for my own needs.
Here's my story on 700X(just so you know I'm not just copying what I have read). I have an older Hornady measurer. When I used 700X, it kind of jams the thing up(kind of like long rifle powders will do). So I wiggle, wiggle wiggle, on the arm, and sometimes it would free up and drop the charge, but most times, I'd have to force the arm down to drop the charge. Then when I look at the dropped charge, there would be a large clump of compressed powder in it.
So yes, it probably was combination of my measurer along with the powder. But I wasn't about to buy a new measurer just to get this one powder to work when I have at least a dozen other powders that work perfectly fine.
So yes, it probably was combination of my measurer along with the powder. But I wasn't about to buy a new measurer just to get this one powder to work when I have at least a dozen other powders that work perfectly fine.