pistol grip questions

C

curious

New member
I have heard that pistol grips are not good because they make it easy to be taken from the person who is carrying it. I use full rear stock with pistol grip. Is this included in this group of poor retention? If so can someone explain the mechanics of how this is easier to take away then a regular rear stock. I just don't see it myself. I do understand why people do not recommend pistol grips by themselves(hard to aim, rough recoil, slow follow up shot).

thanks
curious
 
I think that most shotgunners would say that it is easier to hold onto a shotgun with a pistol grip and standard stock in a weapon retention situation, although it would depend on the specific situation. I have found that the pistol grip tends to make it a bit more difficult to unsling and mount the weapon quickly. I have also found that it helps to hold the weapon when reloading.
 
I don't buy into the weapon's retention argument. I don't think that anybody of average ability and training should worry about weapon's retnetion. As I've said before, few burgulars are burly experts at homeowner disarmament. The pistol grip is an effective tool in VERY tight quarters to keep the muzzle pointed at the threat. In true retentioni terms, the butt of a standard stock may be used as a lever to disarm a homeowner.

That having been said, while few are trained well enough in weapon's retention, still fewer are trained in proper use of pistol-gripped shotguns. Besidse, if you want to engage people anywhere but the confines of a closet, you might want the stock. A case in point is the submachine gun. Notice how the BATF always shoulders their weapons? Heck, it's a full auto. The reason that they don't fire it from the hip is simply that this is not the most effective way to utilize a weapon of any sort. Put it on your shoulder and shoot it.

As to pistol-gripped stocks, I think they are fine for the majority of situations. They are easier to control in some situations and many feel more comfortable shooting them as the middle finger isn't scrunched against the trigger guard when firing from the hip.
 
I will give you $5 for every actual case of a sober, alert citizen having his/her shotgun taken away while holding it in the last 5 years in the US. W or w/o pistol grips...

I consider this scenario to be not much more likely than finding out I'm the long lost heir to the Ruritanian throne...
 
Might be off the subject but I think Randy Weaver and David Koresh might take you up on that one.

But I SERIOUSLY doubt you'll find a single incident. The media would have you believe that women with guns are more likely to have the gun taken away and used against them. Bullcrap. The last thing ANYBODY is thinking when a gun is pointing at them is, "hmm, I bet I can take that 12ga away from that homeowner." I think you 5-spot is safe.
 
I guess a lot depends on what scenario you envision. My own background has my search mode with a long gun at a nearly port-arms position. From that position, I can butt-stroke or swing down to stab with the muzzle, club with the barrel--or shoot.

For me, then, the pistol grip is awkward. The wrist is bent at an awkward angle for control, in my scenario.

FWIW, Art
 
Here's another pistol grip question:

Does anyone endorse the use of a stockless, pistol gripped shotgun for defensive use? I only ask because I tried one and it sure seemed easy to blow things up with, as long as they were close by.

Regards,

Ledbetter
 
Led, you mean like this?

http://www.serbu.com/shorty.htm

:)

Seriously, I think unless you really need the extra manuverability, a PG-only shotgun has only one place, and that's as a dedicated breaching weapon.

Justin

------------------
Justin T. Huang, Esq.
late of Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
 
Meaning, if I wanted to break into Coinneach's house for example? ;) Or do you mean knocking down walls?

Regards,

Ledbetter
 
Led, I know/have known some serious WIHTF types.Few if any have PG only shotguns. As I stated in another response, I HAD to shoot plenty of rounds from the hip with a folder or PG shotgun for a few years,and qualify to 90% to keep my instructor status. If it hits the fan,I will use my shotguns from the shoulder and using the sights at anything farther than contact distance.
 
Yep, that's it. A breaching gun is a shotgun, usually in PG-only configuration, with a special muzzle attachment that looks like a muzzle brake with teeth. This muzzle attachment helps the shotgun lock onto the doorknob/lock core. The ammo usually incorporates some sort of disintegrating projectile (powdered lead comes to mind).

These specialized guns are usually reserved for entry team use, as they just have one specific purpose. Probably be fun to build one for kicks if you had the spare jing.

Justin

------------------
Justin T. Huang, Esq.
late of Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
 
PG shotguns have a place in very close quarters and in situations such as backpacking in Bear Country. It's certainly better than a revolver, IMHO.
 
badgerarms: Glad you mentioned that. A few decades back, I saw a pair of side-hammer shotguns. About 10" barrels; wood stocks cut down to pistol grips. A now-deceased LEO had them; he referred to them as his "crowd control".

If I had to argue with a big bear, I reckon there would be enough adrenalin to help control recoil. :)

Art
 
Art. Just got back from the shooting hole. I reaffirmed my opinion on PG shotguns. I had my Ithaca and my buddy had his Remington both with full stocks. Another guy happened along with a PG Mossberg. It was fun to see him try to hit ANYTHING with that. I do believe that the only place for a pistol grip is when the user can make the logical compromise between packing ability and usefullness. When firing a conventional shotgun, the stock ends at the elbow anyhow. You really don't save that much space at all except with awkward shooting positions.
 
Why, exactly, did they put a front sight on that Mossberg shorty?

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"Anyone feel like saluting the flag which the strutting ATF and FBI gleefully raised over the smoldering crematorium of Waco, back in April of ‘93?" -Vin Suprynowicz
 
Did someone say "Pistol grips on a Shotgun?"

:) :) :)

Wow.. I can't believe that I'm "almost" going to get the last word on this subject.

In a small house, a trailer house, a stair well or tight hallway, pistol grips only on an 18" shotgun would be ideal. You can't shoot magnums but at 10 feet it doesn't matter. You've shaved a foot off the length of the item you would have to rapidly spin around with.

Of course, in-house (small house) defense is the only application where pistol grips would be best. All others would require a full stock.
 
Art, Charley Maloney, now with Fulton Armory, made a bear gun decades ago from a 10 ga Greener cut to 18" and loaded with .375 BP pistol balls. Effect was awesome.

My idea of a bear gun would be my HD 870, with the first two up being Brennekes, backed by 00.
 
Art, Charley Maloney, now with Fulton Armory, made a bear gun decades ago from a 10 ga Greener cut to 18" and loaded with .375 BP pistol balls. Effect was awesome.

My idea of a bear gun would be my HD 870, with the first two up being Brennekes, backed by 00.
 
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