pistol grip on shotgun
- Thread starter rhinov
- Start date
Pistolgrip-only stocks look cool, and they can be stored in smaller places. They can also be maneuvered slightly better in very tight confines.
Speaking as a former firearms instructor, I'll say that they are infinitely harder to use well across a broad spectrum. The few guys who tried to qualify with them at department shoots always had the worst times & hit ratios. They were tolerated on personal shotguns if the owner could qualify, never issued, and you cannot , NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU LIKE THE DAMNED THINGS, achieve the same level of performance as you can with a full-stocked model.
Yes, you can, with practice, improve. But, take it beyond 7 yards, put up multiple targets, use serious buck and/or full-bore slugs, and you'll lose to the guy with a regular stock.
For very close use, firing from a hip, you can achieve a certain level of proficiency that might get the job done. Recoil control and recovery will be more problematic than with the shoulder to act as a recoil barrier, and I find the idea of sighted fire awkward & slow with a PG-only shotgun. It'll certainly be very slow for successive shots, compared to a full-stocked gun. If you've got room to bring it up to eye level, you've got room for a full stock.
At ten feet, with only one shot required, it could do, and if that's your only scenario, go for it.
I choose, after several years of carrying & maneuvering a shotgun through buildings and around them, to not handicap myself. The PG-only shotgun is an extremely limited, and limiting, tool. No professional instructor that I'm aware of advocates them.
As far as getting around corners and down hallways goes, proper carry technique (muzzle down at an angle to the body) allows movement in constricted areas with the ability to get the muzzle up quickly into a firing position either low or high, depending on the space available & time available, for effective repeat fire. You learn the techniques, and the full-stocked version is much more adaptable to a wide range of use than the PG-only stock can ever be.
This is one of those "Don't confuse me with facts" cases.
Denis
Speaking as a former firearms instructor, I'll say that they are infinitely harder to use well across a broad spectrum. The few guys who tried to qualify with them at department shoots always had the worst times & hit ratios. They were tolerated on personal shotguns if the owner could qualify, never issued, and you cannot , NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU LIKE THE DAMNED THINGS, achieve the same level of performance as you can with a full-stocked model.
Yes, you can, with practice, improve. But, take it beyond 7 yards, put up multiple targets, use serious buck and/or full-bore slugs, and you'll lose to the guy with a regular stock.
For very close use, firing from a hip, you can achieve a certain level of proficiency that might get the job done. Recoil control and recovery will be more problematic than with the shoulder to act as a recoil barrier, and I find the idea of sighted fire awkward & slow with a PG-only shotgun. It'll certainly be very slow for successive shots, compared to a full-stocked gun. If you've got room to bring it up to eye level, you've got room for a full stock.
At ten feet, with only one shot required, it could do, and if that's your only scenario, go for it.
I choose, after several years of carrying & maneuvering a shotgun through buildings and around them, to not handicap myself. The PG-only shotgun is an extremely limited, and limiting, tool. No professional instructor that I'm aware of advocates them.
As far as getting around corners and down hallways goes, proper carry technique (muzzle down at an angle to the body) allows movement in constricted areas with the ability to get the muzzle up quickly into a firing position either low or high, depending on the space available & time available, for effective repeat fire. You learn the techniques, and the full-stocked version is much more adaptable to a wide range of use than the PG-only stock can ever be.
This is one of those "Don't confuse me with facts" cases.
Denis
new here, just thought i'd say i like shoulder stocked shotguns and PGs. I intend to own both someday, the PG will not be a HD shotgun, just a fun go out in the woods and shoot stuff gun. I may even just own a Mossberg 500 with a folding stock so i have the best of both worlds.
Well, I think there's at least some merit on both sides of the debate.
I have a 20", extended mag Mossberg, with a PG/folding stock combo. Folded its much more maneuverable and handy to store. I've practiced (alot)shooting from the hip, and get most of the shot "on target" at 40-50 ft. (Max distance in my house). Center of pattern may be off some, but by then the shot has spread out enough so there's still a pretty high percentage of hits.
But, unfolding the stock, for aimed fire is much better, if I can.
So, with the stock folded, its OK to check out things that go bump in the night, where I might be surprised, and have to get a shot off quick, but this is unlikely in my situation (If they're in the house they've gotten past 4 German Shepherds, 3 of which would have a bad attitude if anyone "intruded" on their territory. If I really expect I'd need to shoot, I'd unfold the stock first, like if I need to go outside and check the barn/property ('course one dog goes with me then, too).
I have a 20", extended mag Mossberg, with a PG/folding stock combo. Folded its much more maneuverable and handy to store. I've practiced (alot)shooting from the hip, and get most of the shot "on target" at 40-50 ft. (Max distance in my house). Center of pattern may be off some, but by then the shot has spread out enough so there's still a pretty high percentage of hits.
But, unfolding the stock, for aimed fire is much better, if I can.
So, with the stock folded, its OK to check out things that go bump in the night, where I might be surprised, and have to get a shot off quick, but this is unlikely in my situation (If they're in the house they've gotten past 4 German Shepherds, 3 of which would have a bad attitude if anyone "intruded" on their territory. If I really expect I'd need to shoot, I'd unfold the stock first, like if I need to go outside and check the barn/property ('course one dog goes with me then, too).
Pardon me for expressing this opinion, but I think the PG thing is just a "young man thing". You feel it looks "cool", and you have seen all these "rigged up" shotguns in the movies, and on T.V. As Dave said, it is a "newbie" thing. It actually has nothing to do with efficiency.
silicon wolverine
New member
I guess ill throw a little gas on the fire too. It all depends on purpose. If you live in a dinky aprtment with 30" wide hallways and 8' square rooms, you DO NOT have room to swing a full stock scattergun and make your shot in a HD situation. I bought a remington 870 Marine magnum specifiaclly to PG and use for HD. Yes it kicks like a mule. yes its not easy to shoot bullseyes with. But then again it someone was in your house would you want to contend with a stock banging into door ways and misc corners when you could hold it in fornt of you at low ready and move normally? I dont. Oh BTW adding a PG on the foreend as well makes it MUCH more manageable. You have two arms to absorb recoil and a more positive grip on the weapon. yes noobs buy PGs cause they look cool. thats thier gig. I have them because they work. Im not saying there is no place for a standard stock on a scattergun but in some cases PGs are just better.
SW
SW
My experience (in a LOT of hallways & small rooms), is that you very certainly CAN maneuver a full-stocked shotgun. There are techniques for doing it.
If you feel you really can't handle a 20-inch shotgun with full stock, you'd be much better off with a collapsible to shorten it slightly, but still provide the shoulder use.
Denis
If you feel you really can't handle a 20-inch shotgun with full stock, you'd be much better off with a collapsible to shorten it slightly, but still provide the shoulder use.
Denis
Edward429451
Moderator
I've owned a couple PG shotguns (not pg only) and currantly have a non PG stock SG.
This is my take after shooting all of them in every way imaginable.
PG only sucks and is prolly a young man thing. A PG on a full stock does nothing to detract from efficient use as long as that full (or folding but extended) stock is sucked up tight against your shoulder. A pg on a full stock doesn't really add any extra efficiency either, at least to me.
Conventional stocked SG's have it all in efficiency with none of the hollyweird pizzazz. A short/youth size stock coupled with a short HD barrel is pretty darn compact and kept at low ready doesn't present any unusual limitations in maneuvering inside a house. Yet you can then don a winter coat and a long barrel to go hunting in. Youth sized stocks are great for when you'll be dressed thick.
This is my take after shooting all of them in every way imaginable.
PG only sucks and is prolly a young man thing. A PG on a full stock does nothing to detract from efficient use as long as that full (or folding but extended) stock is sucked up tight against your shoulder. A pg on a full stock doesn't really add any extra efficiency either, at least to me.
Conventional stocked SG's have it all in efficiency with none of the hollyweird pizzazz. A short/youth size stock coupled with a short HD barrel is pretty darn compact and kept at low ready doesn't present any unusual limitations in maneuvering inside a house. Yet you can then don a winter coat and a long barrel to go hunting in. Youth sized stocks are great for when you'll be dressed thick.
GlocksRfun
New member
Dave,
I think of the close to 1,000 times I've shot my shotgun with pistol grips, I only shoot from the hip when I'm doing some crazy shooting that I am not gonna get into. The magority of the time I shoot it like it would be shot if it had a stock, except I hold it away from my face. I look down the barrel. So, you think a pg'd shotgun can only be fired from the hip? so, you challenge people that shoot at the hip against you shooting normal? lol... Kinda like a midget boxing Mike Tyson. Everyone makes it sound like the recoil is outta control. I can shoot it 1 handed with the pistol grip. The gun is long enough and heavy enough. Granted my hand starts to hurt after a few dozen shots.. haven't shot it since I put the hogue grip on.
I think of the close to 1,000 times I've shot my shotgun with pistol grips, I only shoot from the hip when I'm doing some crazy shooting that I am not gonna get into. The magority of the time I shoot it like it would be shot if it had a stock, except I hold it away from my face. I look down the barrel. So, you think a pg'd shotgun can only be fired from the hip? so, you challenge people that shoot at the hip against you shooting normal? lol... Kinda like a midget boxing Mike Tyson. Everyone makes it sound like the recoil is outta control. I can shoot it 1 handed with the pistol grip. The gun is long enough and heavy enough. Granted my hand starts to hurt after a few dozen shots.. haven't shot it since I put the hogue grip on.
It can be fired with a PG, no question. It cannot be fired as accurately or as rapidly. If neither of those are a criterion, have at it. I don't think anybody said it can only be fired from the hip.
Cut the stock off on a leveraction rifle. Can you shoot it from the hip? Yes. Can you hold it up in front of your eyes well enough to hit anything at 25 yards? Maybe. Can you operate it rapidly against multiple targets? No. Can you "make" it mostly work? Yes. Will it run as accurate or as quick as a stocked rifle? No.
Why bother to handicap yourself?
Still, your choice.
Denis
I don't think anybody said it can only be fired from the hip.Cut the stock off on a leveraction rifle. Can you shoot it from the hip? Yes. Can you hold it up in front of your eyes well enough to hit anything at 25 yards? Maybe. Can you operate it rapidly against multiple targets? No. Can you "make" it mostly work? Yes. Will it run as accurate or as quick as a stocked rifle? No.
Why bother to handicap yourself?
Still, your choice.
Denis
>>>The magority of the time I shoot it like it would be shot if it had a stock, except I hold it away from my face. I look down the barrel.<<<
You are one tough dude GlocksRfun! I personally know a guy that tried to hold a PG 12 ga up, so he could sight down the tube, and ended up retiring because of the multiple surgeries to put his jaw back together. I was always scared to try it and gave my Pachmayr pistol grip away to a member of this forum! (hey John, don't try to use it!)
Do you work in the stock-yards choking cows?
You are one tough dude GlocksRfun! I personally know a guy that tried to hold a PG 12 ga up, so he could sight down the tube, and ended up retiring because of the multiple surgeries to put his jaw back together. I was always scared to try it and gave my Pachmayr pistol grip away to a member of this forum! (hey John, don't try to use it!)
Do you work in the stock-yards choking cows?
A couple things....
If anyone wants to just play with a PGO, that's OK with me. Trouble is, one can have fun with a standard stocked shotgun and get better with it as you have fun.
With a PGO, there isn't much better to get. And I have hundreds if not thousands of rounds fired with folded folding stocks behind me. I doubt any of the PGO fans here have done anything near that.
While one can achieve some level of accuracy through training with a PGO, the same time, effort and ammo would turn most of us deadly if we devoted them to work with a standard shotgun.
Proficiency with a standard shotgun is simple to acquire, though not easy. Get a shotgun that fits, learn the rudiments of good form, and use the lightest loads you can find to shoot with. Next, go shoot. Shoot clays, silohuettes, starlings, landfill rats, steel plates and tin cans. Work on smooth, speed and accuracy will show up as you go.....
If anyone wants to just play with a PGO, that's OK with me. Trouble is, one can have fun with a standard stocked shotgun and get better with it as you have fun.
With a PGO, there isn't much better to get. And I have hundreds if not thousands of rounds fired with folded folding stocks behind me. I doubt any of the PGO fans here have done anything near that.
While one can achieve some level of accuracy through training with a PGO, the same time, effort and ammo would turn most of us deadly if we devoted them to work with a standard shotgun.
Proficiency with a standard shotgun is simple to acquire, though not easy. Get a shotgun that fits, learn the rudiments of good form, and use the lightest loads you can find to shoot with. Next, go shoot. Shoot clays, silohuettes, starlings, landfill rats, steel plates and tin cans. Work on smooth, speed and accuracy will show up as you go.....