Pistol Caliber Carbines: my opinion
- Thread starter Edmund Rowe
- Start date
Edmund Rowe
New member
Shane:
Giving you the benefit of the doubt regarding training, I'd get a long range precision bolt action rifle IMHO.
Edmund
Giving you the benefit of the doubt regarding training, I'd get a long range precision bolt action rifle IMHO.
Edmund
Michael Carlin
New member
Edmund,
Yes I was being sarcastic!
On another forum, I saw a thread on PCC (I have not chased it back down, You can if you want, the only ones I think I have read are Glock Talk, Gun Forum and this one (TFL)) in which one of the regulars commented that his local "SWAT team" had opted for a PCC as they were concerned about shoot throughs. Their reasoning was that with SBA (soft body armor) their fire control was not so critical.
The concept itself screams of a total disregard for fire discipline, is ludicrous, and tells me a great deal about the "wanna be" nature of this particulat operation. The assumption that 9mm represents less danger to their fellow officers is fallacious. (Your point 6 in the first post in this thread!)
Edmund, I was being very sarcastic, sorry if that was not clear in the post.
(BTW you, sir, may call me michael!
)
------------------
Ni ellegimit carborundum esse!
Yours In Marksmanship
http://www.1bigred.com/distinguished
michael
[This message has been edited by Michael Carlin (edited 01-17-99).]
Yes I was being sarcastic!
On another forum, I saw a thread on PCC (I have not chased it back down, You can if you want, the only ones I think I have read are Glock Talk, Gun Forum and this one (TFL)) in which one of the regulars commented that his local "SWAT team" had opted for a PCC as they were concerned about shoot throughs. Their reasoning was that with SBA (soft body armor) their fire control was not so critical.
The concept itself screams of a total disregard for fire discipline, is ludicrous, and tells me a great deal about the "wanna be" nature of this particulat operation. The assumption that 9mm represents less danger to their fellow officers is fallacious. (Your point 6 in the first post in this thread!)
Edmund, I was being very sarcastic, sorry if that was not clear in the post.
(BTW you, sir, may call me michael!
)------------------
Ni ellegimit carborundum esse!
Yours In Marksmanship
http://www.1bigred.com/distinguished
michael
[This message has been edited by Michael Carlin (edited 01-17-99).]
Edmund Rowe
New member
Shane:
I'd start with a Remington 700, either VS or PSS, or maybe the Savage FP110 Tactical.
Keep in mind the cost of the scope and future gunsmithing. Some relatively simple 'smithing can do wonders for the groups of a 700 and probably the Savage, such as putting a target crown on the muzzle, truing the action, lapping the bolt lugs, cutting the chamber back to shorten the chamber to a more precise amount, trigger job and good truing on the scope mounting. An article in Tactical Shooter a while back described how all this cost $200 and shrank 700 PSS groups from 0.6--.8" groups to 0.3-0.4 or something like that.
Biggest problem I've seen with good bolt rifles is they spoil you. You'll never be happy with an AR-15 or other assault carbine's trigger ever again after you tried a well-tuned bolt rifle.
...hmm...guess I've moved off topic?
Edmund
I'd start with a Remington 700, either VS or PSS, or maybe the Savage FP110 Tactical.
Keep in mind the cost of the scope and future gunsmithing. Some relatively simple 'smithing can do wonders for the groups of a 700 and probably the Savage, such as putting a target crown on the muzzle, truing the action, lapping the bolt lugs, cutting the chamber back to shorten the chamber to a more precise amount, trigger job and good truing on the scope mounting. An article in Tactical Shooter a while back described how all this cost $200 and shrank 700 PSS groups from 0.6--.8" groups to 0.3-0.4 or something like that.
Biggest problem I've seen with good bolt rifles is they spoil you. You'll never be happy with an AR-15 or other assault carbine's trigger ever again after you tried a well-tuned bolt rifle.
...hmm...guess I've moved off topic?
Edmund
cornered rat
Moderator
And speaking of cornered rat stands...my Mini-14 is mean for just such. I don't expect to best trained riflemen at any range, but close-in .223 will go through more lard and Kevlar than 9/40/45.
Last year ee read about some guy in Oregon that had a whole parcel of cops breaking his door. He plugged two with an SKS before they could even start firing back with handguns. Mini14 replaced my SKS as being handier and faster to use, easier to clean and faster to reload (originals mags are costly, though). At 10 paces, .223 will work as well as .30, where as 9mm might not. Having fired subguns at avariety of targets, I'd say that subcaliber penetrators in every pistol bullets make sense: 9 and 45 proved whimpy against cover.
Last year ee read about some guy in Oregon that had a whole parcel of cops breaking his door. He plugged two with an SKS before they could even start firing back with handguns. Mini14 replaced my SKS as being handier and faster to use, easier to clean and faster to reload (originals mags are costly, though). At 10 paces, .223 will work as well as .30, where as 9mm might not. Having fired subguns at avariety of targets, I'd say that subcaliber penetrators in every pistol bullets make sense: 9 and 45 proved whimpy against cover.
Here is a different thought about pistol caliber rifles. In the Chicago area the nearest place to shoot rifle calibers is about 2 hours drive from downtown. Pistol calibers can be shot in several indoor ranges that are in the suburbs 1/2 to 1 hr drive. Now does the ability to practice fairly often with the firearm that you rely on matter? The pistol calibers may lack several good points but they excel in this area of being cheaper and much more readily used.
Edmund Rowe
New member
dundee:
The ability to practice with live ammo is ALWAYS an asset, so for someone in a downtown sprawl like you describe, a PCC may be a good choice to get a warm fuzzy feeling with the live fire practice that is available.
Having said that, if I was in that situation I would:
1) move out of downtown soonest. While I'm at it move to a gun-friendly state.
2) even with a centerfire rifle I can get a lot of handling practice in dry-firing.
3) Make the extra effort to road trip out to practice wherever I could shoot centerfire rifle.
...but that's just me.
Edmund
The ability to practice with live ammo is ALWAYS an asset, so for someone in a downtown sprawl like you describe, a PCC may be a good choice to get a warm fuzzy feeling with the live fire practice that is available.
Having said that, if I was in that situation I would:
1) move out of downtown soonest. While I'm at it move to a gun-friendly state.
2) even with a centerfire rifle I can get a lot of handling practice in dry-firing.
3) Make the extra effort to road trip out to practice wherever I could shoot centerfire rifle.
...but that's just me.
Edmund