Pistol Caliber carbine for an elderly lady
- Thread starter banditgriot
- Start date
22 WMR can do the job BUT we are still talking about a 22 cal. hole in a platform that will be delivering a 40 gr. pill at 1910 fps. for 324 ft. lbs. energy. Basically making low 9mm power but in a much smaller hole. The CZ 512 has a capacity of 5+1.
The 30 Carb. will deliver a 110 gr. pill at 1970 fps. for 970 ft. lbs. You can get 5, 10, 15, and 30 round mags. for the 30 carb. with the 15 round ones being the standard. Here you are delivering 44 mag. energy levels but in a much smaller hole.
Ther CZ lists for around $500, a military carbine will run a bit more. The nice thing with the 30 is that they saw service in WWII & Korea, and many in Viet Nam. If you got her one, eventually it's story will include "it was mom's gun". You'll have a piece of history that will have a personal note to it.
What does age, gender, or height have anything to do with it? Using a weapon is about skill and technique. She has to be willing to learn to use whatever she chooses effectively. A gun is not a magic wand that makes bad guys go away, It takes training.
M1 carbine is not a bad choice in general. AR15 is an even better one.
warbirdlover
New member
You need to read all the posts.
I did. I saw all kinds of suggestions from .22s to lever guns. She's a seasoned shooter and that's good but what type of shooting? Does she know the first thing about using a gun for defense? There's no logical reason why an elderly woman can't run a carbine like Clint Smith(aside from training). The only relevant thing I saw was she has arthritis so that may be a factor in manipulating controls and clearing malfunctions. I stand by what I said.
Although the question sounds crass I'll breifly address your points because they have EVERYTHING to do with it.
Age: As scoutman asked: "How fragile is your mother?". That was a completely valid question and MUST be considered. As we are talking in reference to an elderly person in her mid / late 70's platform and the various limitations of platform are completely relevant (ie blowback actions being harder to cock). Age also comes into play with learning curve. She may be sharp as a tack still or may have issues with learning the intracacies of a more complicated platform.
Gender: OSTEOPOROSIS or brittle bones. Far more prevelent in women than men. That goes back to scoutman's question.
Height: ERGONOMICS. Length of Pull is an issue for those of us who are short. At 5'2" any platform with a 14 1/4" - 14 1/2" LOP (which is very common) is not going to fit and will make it harder for her to shoot properly as well as exacerbate any felt recoil.
banditgriot
New member
Alright it's time to look for an M-1 Carbine, which shouldn't be too hard to find. I have a LGS that Ihave been doing business with for over 20 years and sure he can find me one in good condition. Thanks all for your help!
SHR970 you are right on all points. My concern has to do with my mother's age, size and condition as a woman of advanced years. She is still sharp as a tack, but would be best served by a weapon she can wield with ease. She has experience defending herself with a firearm and has no qualms with doing it again. I just needed some help identifying what might work for her now. Thanks to all who replied.
SHR970 you are right on all points. My concern has to do with my mother's age, size and condition as a woman of advanced years. She is still sharp as a tack, but would be best served by a weapon she can wield with ease. She has experience defending herself with a firearm and has no qualms with doing it again. I just needed some help identifying what might work for her now. Thanks to all who replied.
BigMikey76
New member
I don't think so. I personally believe that the purpose of a home defense weapon should be to make the intruder/attacker STOP intruding/attacking. That can be accomplished with any caliber. A good semi-auto .22 (Ruger 10/22, Marlin 795, etc...) will provide quick follow up shots, comfortable shooting for an aging woman, and the detachable mags allow for easy loading and unloading (loading the mag itself may be difficult with arthritis, but that would be done well in advance of the HD/SD situation).
Some will say that a .22 is too light. If your goal is to kill the intruder right away, maybe, but the vast majority of intruders will retreat when they have been shot, and they will not stop to contemplate the caliber.
While I was the first to chime in with the M1 carbine, I figure Mom will use her revolver again after the action job. To keep the cost of the more temporary long gun down, you could buy a $209.00 Mossberg "youth" 20ga pump. NO, it's not a pistol caliber carbine, but loaded with #4 buck it would be reliable, cheap, and effective.
I still stand by the M1 recommendation though.
I still stand by the M1 recommendation though.
The learning curve is taken care of by training. You should always seek competent instruction and learn your chosen platform inside and out.
Medical conditions are valid concerns but he didn't tell us she has any other than arthritis. If she has one that may impact her ability to use a firearm then that does need to be taken into consideration. But just because she's elderly doesn't mean she has one. My grandmother is in her 70's and is in great health and would have no trouble working an AR15 or most any long arm if she learned how.
The short arms that go along with short stature is something that slipped my mind but when they go to the gun store to look at carbines they just have to find one that "fits" her. FWIW I know a woman who is 5'4 and has carried and shot and M16a2 just fine.
I would say that if the OP owns or has access to any carbines then have his grandmother shoot them and if at all possible take a class with one if she's not already versed in the DEFENSIVE use of a carbine. Even if she is a class can't hurt. After she's got that down and she has an idea of her preferences she can better choose a system that will work for her.
My point is that we shouldn't think we can pick the best gun for someone else no matter how much we know about them. We can only impart knowledge and let them choose for themselves.
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The Taurus Judge has been known to have issues with certain brands of .410 shotgun shells. I would not put faith in one that couldn't use any brand of shell available.
The 20-gauge "youth" shotgun isn't a bad idea either. I have a Remington 870 "youth" that someone added an adult stock to and it's a sweet gun for HD, even with a 21" barrel. Light, nimble and a fast shooter, even "from the hip".
You can get #2 buckshot in 3-inch shells and #3 buck in both 2¾ and 3-inch shells. The Federal 3-inch #2 Buckshot puts out 18 copper plated .27 caliber pellets like a swarm of angry hornets at 1100 fps. The 2¾" shells are normally loaded with #3 Buckshot which has 20 plated .25" pellets at around 1150-1200 fps.
When a friend's grandmother became a widow, she kept two guns from her husband's collection. A S&W .38 Special M&P revolver and his Stoeger 20-ga "Coach gun", a replica of the short barreled (16") stagecoach double-bore. Her grandson added a slip-on shell holder on the stock with #3 buckshot and took her out to shoot it. Turns out she's Annie Oakley with that thing!
I dunno about y'all, but an elderly woman holding a double-bore on me at 1 a.m. might cause me to need a change of underwear!
The 20-gauge "youth" shotgun isn't a bad idea either. I have a Remington 870 "youth" that someone added an adult stock to and it's a sweet gun for HD, even with a 21" barrel. Light, nimble and a fast shooter, even "from the hip".
You can get #2 buckshot in 3-inch shells and #3 buck in both 2¾ and 3-inch shells. The Federal 3-inch #2 Buckshot puts out 18 copper plated .27 caliber pellets like a swarm of angry hornets at 1100 fps. The 2¾" shells are normally loaded with #3 Buckshot which has 20 plated .25" pellets at around 1150-1200 fps.
When a friend's grandmother became a widow, she kept two guns from her husband's collection. A S&W .38 Special M&P revolver and his Stoeger 20-ga "Coach gun", a replica of the short barreled (16") stagecoach double-bore. Her grandson added a slip-on shell holder on the stock with #3 buckshot and took her out to shoot it. Turns out she's Annie Oakley with that thing!
I dunno about y'all, but an elderly woman holding a double-bore on me at 1 a.m. might cause me to need a change of underwear!
Nickel Plated
New member
I'm curious, would a 410. Gauge shotgun with rifled barrel shooting slugs be similar to a 45 LC rifle as far as recoil and muzzle energy goes? Maybe get some low recoil 410 slugs in a semi auto shotty.
Sasquatch in MN
New member
Considering the OP's concerns with regard to an arthritic 77 yo woman who is a seasoned shooter, the .30 Carbine or the Marlin Camp-9 would be excellent options.
The .30 Carbine is not a pistol cartridge per-se, but would do well in a HD situation and the rifle is light and easy to manipulate.
The Camp-9 is light, capable of good accuracy, and has manageable recoil for a blow-back carbine. S&W 9mm pistol mags work well which is a plus.
Don
The .30 Carbine is not a pistol cartridge per-se, but would do well in a HD situation and the rifle is light and easy to manipulate.
The Camp-9 is light, capable of good accuracy, and has manageable recoil for a blow-back carbine. S&W 9mm pistol mags work well which is a plus.
Don