pillar bed question

great info..

Clark, I'm happy to say that I've actually alreay read every link you've posted except for the "z-hat" one... and I STILL don't know what to do!!! LOL!!

Just kidding... Actually I feel very well armed at this point. I just need time and $.

I think I might just be the guy that beds the sides of the lug. Depends on how tough (stupid?) I feel that day...
 
Bow Shot,
Put some electrician's tape on the sides and front of the recoil lug and trim with a razor blade. That will prevent that area from being bedded.

Long Rifles,
Again, beautiful bedding jobs! I disagree with you that anyone can do it because it obviously takes a lot of practice. One thing though: I notice that you have some cut slots on each side of the action screws. What is this for?

- Ivan.
 
ok..

...but I don't understand why we don't want the sides of the lug contacting the bed.

I see that if ALL sides of the lug are bedded, that suction and friction might make it nigh to impossible to get the action out one the beddng cures. but there will be plenty of void (air) in front of the lug, right?

I don't understand that part (not letting the sides of the lug contact the bedding)..
 
The "slots" were the old way in which I finished the pillars.

The story:

Years ago I worked for another company. The philosophy there was that pillars should not actually contact the receiver. It was thought a layer of bedding material should be sandwiched between the pillar and the receiver. The logic behind came from one of the owners who happened to be a fully certified metallurgist. He reasoned that two dissimilar metals create a small electric charge when in the presence of moisture. This would create corrosion.

Well, you do what your told so for a long time we whittled the little ears out of the pillars. I've since done away with the idea as I've built enough rifles (approaching close to 500 now) to know it's not hurting anything. So, I've modified my pillar design slightly and now leave them as they are.

The "secret" to this stuff is nothing more than taking the time to evaluate the process and establish a procedure that makes good common sense. Fancy tools and equipment sure make it easier but if a guy just thinks it through a bit the results aren't hard to replicate.

The forums and "how to's" are good but it's all stuff that has been around a long, long time. It's easy to get stuck in the "crab bucket" mentality. Experiment to improve the process. Materials become a small part of the equation. Just about any epoxy resin will work for this stuff. Some certainly work better than others but the place to focus your effort is in how you apply it.

It's been often said "rookies" focus on equipment where's "veterans" pay attention to procedure. There's a lot of truth to that in a number of ways.

As for points of contact for the recoil lug. Again, years ago it was a cardinal rule that it should basically take a hydraulic press to install and remove a barreled action from a bedded stock. People wanted them tight so they had no chance of moving around. The problem is the material won't tolerate it for very long. The hardest epoxy I've ever seen is Devcon Titanium. I use it on my tactical rifles. It's rated on the rockwell C scale and not the shore hardness scale (traditionally used for rubbers/plastics). Be that as it may it will still suffer from the effects of abrasion. Folks have finally realized this after watching the recoil lug shave bedding material on the sides and below as the gun is assembled. So, they tape the lug now in front and in the rear to help minimize this. A GREAT addition to this is choosing the right lug to begin with. I manufacture all my own lugs in house and they are different from what I see offered. the sides are drafted slightly and (most importantly) they are fully finish machined with a radius in all the corners so that they don't chew their way through the bedding as they are installed. Little things can make big differences.

Hope this helped.

Cheers,

C
 
Last edited:
excellent

Thanks very kindly for the wisdom on the lug.

Any comments on floating the tang on the Savage? There's no action screw there...

I see that some are zealous to insist that it not be bedded (ie, suspend off the bedding material with a layer of tape) , others say that it is best to let the bedding make contact with the tang
 
Last edited:
I'd lay cash money I could do it both ways and not see a bit of difference.

Tension free is tension free whether you contact the entire action or just enough to keep it from falling out of the stock.

I for one prefer the maximum amount of surface contact permitted which is why I insist on doing all my own inletting/bedding in house.
 
yes..

I'd agree on that. I'm not a rilfe maker at all, but do have a base level understanding of statics and dynamics. 'And the dynamics get REALLY wacky in the realm of rifles!


Thanks for taking the time to dispense the wisdom, folks.
 
Hi LongRifles,

I would guess that there WOULD be a difference between a tang that contacted bedding and one that didn't. If there is no tension, then vibration through the action would make the tang vibrate against the bedding or vibrate in an air gap. Intuitively, the air gap sounds better. I don't know how the action looks, so I can't visualise how far the tang is from the last secure mounting point.

Regarding materials, the first rifle I ever "glass" bedded was a M1 with something called "Micro-Bed". This wasn't expensive and I didn't have a lot of money. It actually lasted for well over a decade before needing reworked. I also didn't do a particularly pretty job, but it worked well enough anyway. These days, labor for me is much more valuable than the extra $5 or $10 for using proper materials.

I think I used a Holland recoil lug for the gun I seriously reworked.

- Ivan.
 
If a dog wags its tail while walking does it change the direction its going?

a typical high performace cartridge accelerates a bullet to roughly 2.5 times the speed of sound in a little over two feet. It's accelerating in a linear and rotational fashion. The barrel is all over the damn place during this event and its all being managed typically by a 1.0- 1.0625 diameter thread tennon with 16-18 threads per inch.

Grab a little **** ant #2 sporter barrel by the tennon once in your hand and then try to control the end of that barrel when a buddy pushes on it. You can't. Imagine what we are asking an action to do.

The tang is the last thing I'd be worried about. . .

Chad
 
chicken's in the pot...

I finally got up the nerve (and the time) to do the job last night. I prepped the stock over the last week, deepening the inletting, drilling anchor holes for the epoxy, vacuuming it all out, etc. Then I basically followed the advice gathered here (firing line).

After work last night, I puttied up the voids in the stock and action, masked the appropriate areas, applied and buffed the release agent (kiwi, twice) on the action and screws, etc.

Next, I applied the epoxy to the stock, kind of shoved it into the anchor holes by hand (wearing latex gloves), and then slathered it on after that. 'Set the action in, and wiped off the excess squish.

Mistakes so far:
1) Newspaper over the wife's new rug: not good enough. I had a couple close calls. 'Almost met death.

2) Epoxy gushed out of one of the action screw holes when I installed the screw. This may be an issue, since I'm not too sure how diligent I was to get release agent to REALLY cover ALL of the action, including the INSIDE!! Perhaps I will meet death after all... I did coat the inside of those screw holes but... this made for a severely panicked clean up of a severely hard to reach area.

3) I like LongRifles's trim idea MUCH better (trim off excess bedding material with a plastic tool while it is still in a plastic state) than the method that I employed, wiping it off with paper towels. I would call my method neat, but not excellent.

4) I used Qtips to trim off some of the excess in tight areas. Bad idea; though they didn't leave fibers behind, thy left ugly swaths. As the epoxy leveled though, the trim spots looked better.

5) I didn’t think to apply release agent over the tape that I put over the recoil lug. I anticipate a lot of suffering because of this. I hope I’m wrong, but I’m a realist.
 
Every rifle I have ever taken apart after glassing, came apart hard the first time.

The tape should come loose after a bit.

I just hope "masking" tape was up to the task.

I like the black electrical tape.

Let us know how it looks, providing of course you live through the experience.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
 
aye..

I did use electrical tape on the lug...

After I git from here (work) it's off to a friend's house to check on the beagle, then back home to try to get the action free. The suspense is killing me...

'Hope to be home by 7:00pm...
 
My hat is off to you, waiting as long as you have.

Hard time for me.

If you used the acraglass, rather then the gel, any little voids you see in the bedding can quickly and easily be filled!

Let us know how it came out!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
 
And the winner is:

The action popped out very nicely. I was pleasantly surprised, I was expecting up to several hours of effort (no vice, uncertain about release agent application) but it was a matter of about 5 minutes.

The fit is absolutely beautiful,... like a casting out of a mold.

Appearance from the top side is nice, but not something a like a seasoned pro would turn out.

I see why rifles don't come bedded (in this manner) from the factory: This operation would easily add several hundred $ to the cost of a rifle.
The last I heard, my employer company dishes out $70 per hour of skilled labor (cost of lights, heat, insurance, pay, etc.).

Other lessons learned:
Coat the entire action, inside and out with release agent, don’t spare. Its easy to apply, easy to buff, easy to get off and saves so much anguish…
I used Kiwi brown, and it buffed out clear. Comes off like a dream with brake cleaner.

I used JB weld. It was on the runny side, but manageable. It took about ½ of the contents of the “Industro Weld” size, which is the big tubes.

With the barrel channel so deep (Savage VLP) a dam/barrier was required to form a nice looking “end” to the epoxy bed. The pros use an electrical tape doughnut. I should have laid more tape in the channel too.

I’ll post pics when I can…
 
Good job.

I see you used JB Weld . Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?????

Longrifles, Inc. --- what is your bedding material?????????

I am sure there are other good products out there, but have just used the Brownells Acraglas for so many years with good results, I just tend to stay with what works.

Didn't like my one experience with Acragel.

The Acraglas resin is about the best glue for repairs I have ever seen, and I probably use more for such then bedding.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
 
well..

I'm coming off a long season of 4 day work weeks (laid off 1 day per week), so funds are severely limited.

I'm sure that JB is NOT a preferred material, but it is what I had on hand (ie., didn't have to buy it) and I thought what the heck, I'll be a test case.

Perhaps in time to come, I'll be telling others NOT to use it, and save them some trouble.

Either way, its an experiment.

'Wont be able to work on it tonight... rats....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top