Pig Bomb True info...

I hunt them for free here. I invite folks to join me. Dogs on hogs mainly but occasionally I can slip a gun hunt in. Rarely get lucky with guns though.

Brent
 
as far as hogs go, let them come! i probably live in the only state left where you can still buy guns, ammo, and beer... all in one stop!... the only problem is you cant do anything with said supplies unless buying the right license at the allowed twice a year/ or once a "season" license in the second week of the sixth month of the year...unless it is a leap year in which the rules change and you have to recalculate the approximate dates at which you want hunt such animal... that being said ,,, oh wait was i talking about pigs? or was it birds, deer, small game, fox, wolfs, bears, cougars, elk, ram?... maybe it was fishing..never mind, i lost my train of thought:D
 
Yes the feral domestics do lose their farmed shape rapidly...
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Yes they do. A first generation feral hog will undergo some changes is a fairly short period of time. First the tail goes straight, then the butt becomes more narrow.

Killed these three hogs one evening as few weeks ago. None had the hybrid tooth.
 

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We also have the "hybrid tooth"...
http://www.hunting-in-texas.com/learnhogs.htm
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This has been bothering me for a while now, this "hydrid tooth." Mentioned elsewhere as the Euro tooth and claimed to be diagnostic of a feral hog/Russian boar cross. http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=319207

So far, the only references that I can find to support the claim that this is indicative of a Russian boar/feral hog mix is the site cited above. The other sites that mention this that I have found all refer to this one site or at least to the same set of images. For example...
http://www.hunting-in-texas.com/learnhogs.htm
http://www.texasboars.com/articles/aging.html

I am sorry. I have seen this before and I have to laugh. That is a vestigial LPM1 (lower first premolar, adult tooth)!!!!

I have yet to see anything in my veterinary or osteology texts that support that crossing feral hogs and Russian boars produces this vestigial tooth, especially when it is a tooth that shows up in domestic hogs!!!!!!

http://www.d91.k12.id.us/skyline/tea...bertsd/pig.htm
http://www.skullsite.co.uk/Pig/pigdom.htm

In fact, that tooth shows up as part of the dental formula for hogs which is

3 1 4 3
______
3 1 4 3

The formula means you have 3 upper incisors, 1 canine, 4 premolars, and 3 molars on each side (left and right) and the same pattern down below on the mandible.

Why is it a vestigial? It is something of a remnant tooth. Many other artiodactyls have all but totally lost the tooth, but it still shows up in regularly in Suidae (pig family). Rarely, you will find a white-tailed deer with one or two vestigial LPM1s as something of a throwback.

Do the vestigial LPM1s always show up in domestic pigs? Nope. They are vestigial. Sometimes they are not there or when they are there they are smaller than their other PM counterparts, less well formed. They are a tooth being evolutionarily lost, but not gone yet by any stretch.

As they are located in the diastema (space or gap) between the canine and the fully formed cheek teeth and are smaller in size, they do tend to get broken off and the gums will heal over the roots such that they may appear to have never been present when they were.

I really have to wonder how it is that folks come up with this stuff and pass it off as being some sort of diagnostic fact.

Go look up pictures of domestic pigs on the internet and teeth like I showed you above and you will see that non-feral domestic pigs have this tooth with remarkable regularity.

Note, there is no real biological stage of being "feral." The authors are treating "feral" as a biological entity that doesn't exist as an entity. So to say that the tooth is diagnostic of a cross between a feral hog and a Russian boar is garbage. Secondly, there is no information other than that one set of pictures on the internet that seems to support the claim. Third, with the tooth showing up in non-feral domestic pigs, it can't be claimed as diagnostic of a feral hog/Russian boar mix to produce a hybrid.
 
I am under the impression (limited factual backing on the net) that the tooth does not appear in true russian/euro wild stock. Just in feral or feral/euro crossbreds... Not an indicator of feral versus domestic as feral are domestic hogs in the wild.
Feral hogs are not russian hogs. Russian hogs are "wild hogs". That is how I see it anyway. I have trapped and dogged several hundred head of swine of all ages and size and never seen one with out that tooth. I also have never gotten a hog that has only the traits of true russian hogs.
Brent
 
I have trapped and dogged several hundred head of swine of all ages and size and never seen one with out that tooth. I also have never gotten a hog that has only the traits of true russian hogs.
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I have killed at least 8 hogs here and in Austria that were pruebred Russian/German boars. None of those that I examined had that tooth. This one was killed in OK. This was a very old boar when he was killed in 07. His teeth were ground down to the gums. He had a small brass tag in his ear from a game preserve in Germany.
 

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I am under the impression (limited factual backing on the net) that the tooth does not appear in true russian/euro wild stock.
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Okay, prove it. You have passed off the information as fact, but the closest thing you have to a source has no documentation. Your impressions are well intended, but not backed up scientifically.

Just in feral or feral/euro crossbreds... Not an indicator of feral versus domestic as feral are domestic hogs in the wild.
Feral hogs are not russian hogs. Russian hogs are "wild hogs". That is how I see it anyway. I have trapped and dogged several hundred head of swine of all ages and size and never seen one with out that tooth. I also have never gotten a hog that has only the traits of true russian hogs.
Brent
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And by "only traits of true russian hogs" you include this alleged Euro-tooth absence. This is a "fact" not in evidence. You see, the reason the tooth is always there is because it is not absent from Russian or European wild hogs. It is present.
http://www.skullsite.co.uk/Pig/wboar.htm This wild pig has them.

So OF COURSE it is present in the bazillions of hogs you have killed.

If it is present in a European wild hog and present in domesticates and ferals, then it would show up in hybrids between the two, and does. If you have a pure blood, the tooth will be there. If you have a domestic pig. The tooth will be there. If you have a feral pig. The tooth will be there.

So to use the tooth presence of absence as a diagnostic trait of being a hybrid is BOGUS.
 
I have killed at least 8 hogs here and in Austria that were pruebred Russian/German boars. None of those that I examined had that tooth. This one was killed in OK. This was a very old boar when he was killed in 07. His teeth were ground down to the gums. He had a small brass tag in his ear from a game preserve in Germany.
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Now, did they not have the tooth or had it been present and broken away earlier in life? Did you skeletonize the mandible and check for the presence of the alveolus?

Do you have any photographs? Were you actually looking for this trait? Did you also take notice of any of the cusp variations on the molars as well?

How did you diagnose that these were "purebred"? If you based the statement on phenotypes, then you would have a problem. You are making a claim of absoluteness that you can't substantiate.

If this tooth presence/absence is diagnostic as claimed, none of the actual biologists seem to know this.

As for your German boar from OK, with the teeth ground down to the gums, you are going to be hard pressed to prove the tooth wasn't there without skeletonizing it.

Interestingly, Vietnamese potbelly pigs seem to be missing the LPM1...
http://www.americanheadhunters.com/jpg/potbelliedpig.jpg
http://www.skullsite.co.uk/Pig/vietpig_lat.jpg
 
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I have lived most of my life in big cities and have never seen a Hog, Sow, Swine, Pig, Boar, domestic or any other name for a pig outside of a fenced area.
I just want to say that this thread has been a real education for me. Facinating information. To me, it doesn't matter much if some things can't be proven. The general conversation is a good read. Thanks.
And now I am going to load up the "youtube" videos and enjoy.
 
hogdogs, where you at ,perry area? I grew up hunting in south fl and some up just inland and south a perry. There is a world of difference in the way we hunted between the to areas. We did trap,dog and stalk hunt them. Never cut many till i got about to old and broke down to do much more. There has been some mainly old piney wood rooters down in the bear island unit that have scaled at 400lbs and not hardly any domestic showing in them. Now up around the perry area ,them hogs are have mixed lots of color and a longer bodied hogs but still with cutters showing. I use to get a kick out of watch'n a couple of young bucks fighting to see who got to go in and catch the hog they jumped. The biggest ones back then were being sold to that canned hunt club on the corner of 349 and 27 i think.Them hogs could cover ten miles or better a day on all that hard road up there. Not like them swamps where you and a 250 lber could be in the same bog try'n to cross it and see each other 50 yards apart and nether one can run. He could be in the palmeto patch next to the swamp the next day. I have seen some damd big hogs but they all had bacon hog in them, 7 foot long and slower that hell compaired to a wider breeds with cutters and longer snout even stand up hair on there shoulders but have a mix of color that could be seen in a barn yard. Over all the pig bomb show is kinda like watch'n a show on the swamp ape not like wild america. Lots of BS mixed with a wee little bit a fact.
 
Hardluk, I started out in the Daytona area with hunts in south florida and from Daytona to south Georgia and now reside up in the western end of the panhandle (the true south:D).

The thing with bacon and body mass is 2 fold... feed and need. If they have the feed in abundance and no need to travel for food, water, or safety, they will all grow to large size and have bacon belly to some degree. Now cut barr hogs will always have more...:eek:

As for the piney woods rooter... they are usually jet black color swine... In the perry area they are the most mentioned hogs. I have a few buddies in that area. The jet black swine in swine are pretty much all the original feral stock in the state stemming from the spanish explorers dating back to the 1500's if I remember the history correctly.
Quickly pasted from...
http://www.ronsguideservice.com/boar.htm
The Florida wild boar is the classic American razor-back, piney woods rooter. They are not native to Florida. There are theories about the origins of Florida's feral hogs. One is they're descendants of the swine that Ponce de Leon, Hernando DeSoto and other early Spanish explorers brought over from Spain on their ships in the 1500's. The black Spanish hogs quickly populated the state of Florida. The early settlers released domestic boars to up-grade the Florida feral strain which accounts for the color markings we see that sometimes resemble domestic hog breeds.
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Brent
 
My area of florida has always had hogs, but I am not aware of any explosion. Pig can do a lot of damage to gardens and such. But a hundred pounds or so of meat would certainly compensate for the damage. I live next to a creek bottom and would like something to shoot at other than the squirrels that I culling now. A firend has his business down by one of our inland bay river areas and he had shot 5 pigs out of his office window during early morning hours. This is only about a few blocks from US 90. A few years ago off of US 90 not to far from Milton, FL a construction boss would go out to his job site early in the morning and took out 26 hogs.
 
hogdogs Never hunted past the perry area. I know the basic history of the florida hogs to, but you do see the inbreading of different mixes of hog blood lines.Just depends on the area. What i neant by travel of hogs was up there around the perry area atlest the boys were out damd near ever day hog ride'n the dirt roads. They would go out and circle blocks and look for hog travel and then throw out a trail dog and then with to few people and to much acrerage to cover they would find that hog 2 miles away by the time that one trail dog got them slowed down enought to get out and walk in a catch dog. Marathon runers up there. Back in s fl most had so much food and so much harder to find that the hogs typicaly did not travel the same kind of distances. Plus we were mostly deer hunting and hog was just a benifit if lucky enough to hear them or find some fresh turned over ground. Nothing like walk'n in a palmeto patch and walk up on a 200 lb.er at 10 feet. Most of the hogs back then were much more wild blood in the park grounds ( big cypress) and near by areas but when we hunted closer to developed area's you would find a well mixed herds and just to damd many to get up on so we would build large concrete wire traps that might let us catch a larger number . There was one old man that lived by himself about ten miles from anywhere that some of us have watched walk into the middle of herd of hogs ,,,maybe 50 or 60 hogs and dump out treats for them. Darn hogs doing like they do would fight around him to get to the bread or donuts or vege's he brought out and he could holler at them and they would run. Darn pet hogs atleast to him.. Moved to nc mountains and hardly a hog loose up here. Few (russian) from the tenn. side, pigs get seen durning hunting season on the state line areas but they don't seem to be makeing an in in this area. TOOO bad ,sure do miss a good slow cooked wild pig..... Ever have a cuban family cook a pig in the ground,, O my. No cubans up here ether. Dam, wish i had never read this tread.
 
The Pig Bomb show was generally a sensationalized show.
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Agreed. I won't get into the debate on the various species characteristics. That's been well covered. But the show definately tried to make feral hogs seem more menacing and dangerous than they actually are. As I said in another thread, the only people I know or have heard of being injured by a wild hog in Alabama were some of the folks that used to go out and catch them with dogs. And they got bitten or slashed because they were actually grabbing onto the hogs trying to catch them alive. Grab any wild animal and it will likely try to bite you. Hogs are no exception. But as far as a danger to someone just walking through the woods here? Naaaa, that's just way oversensationalized horse pucky. I've encountered them hundreds of times and killed a dump truck load of them. (we consider them a shoot on sight pest on our land) They run like hell at the first sight of a human. I wish they would aggressively stand and fight. They would consistently loose to my rifle and it would be far easier to eradicate them. But in areas were they are hunted they can become as elusive as deer and just as human shy.
 
You are pretty much right about them not being aggressive in general. I have, however, met with many homeowners associations and heard story after story of folks being charged while walking dogs or going to get the morning paper. It was situations like this got me hired to eradicate the hogs under any costs... Keep in mind we are dealing with nature lovin' tree huggers who moved to these places to be in nature and they needed alot to be pushed to letting me turn hunting dogs loose in their gated communities. Many were fine with the land destruction citing the hogs were there first but the fear of being run down by a hog was too much. To hear a 70+ old lady describing the sound a hog makes as it is sharpening it's tusks is kinda funny in a cute way though...
Brent
 
Ours certainly have not been aggressive. They seem to have a serious case of avoidance behavior more so than any of the other critters. While common in the game camera images, I have actually seen live hogs on my place as often as I have seen live bobcats and the bobcats are rare even in the game camera images.

Last night was the 3rd time for me to spy a live hog at my place and the FIRST time I was able to do something about it. :D

The rifle is for scale and is 40" long.
 

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DNS, That is sweet lookin' kill! Having trapped alot with sour corn I could actually walk to within 25 or less yards of a trap in darkness, flip on the red LED and check activity without spookin' them and go to the truck and unload dogs just to return and "drop snap"... that is a heck of a blast right there... 2 curr dogs and 2 bulldogs usually meant 3 pigs or 2 hogs. Man that is the abusive (for us, the dogs or hogs... just depends) version of "fish in a barrel"... The cases of note where hogs charge people is cases where they have little or no hunting pressure and are dealing with unarmed fearful people... picture a polar bear in a trailer park dumpster at the local hippie park!:eek:
Brent
 
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