Pietta 1851 Colt Navy , brass frame Barrel Pins.

S

slowhanddll

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I am a noob here. I have been searching the threads and google for info on how to replace one of these pins. I see a couple things about if they are loose, but what if it is broken off, with the stub still in the brass frame, slightly recessed in the hole ?
A local gunsmith would not touch it, saying the brass is soft and the bit would wander and damage the frame, and that it is safe to shoot with one pin. I don't think he wanted to bother with it.
ideas ? Just drill slowly and carefully ?
I ordered a new pair of pins from Cimarron two weeks ago and was told they would ship ' soon '.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.


thanks

David
 
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Slowhand

In situations like this, photos would be helpful.

Having said that your explanation is good.

You can carefully drill these things out but the emphasis is on carefully

It is surprising that a gunsmith does not feel confident in his ability to take the pin out.

Start with a bit that is much smaller than the pin and gradually work your way up to the largest drill you can use without getting into the brass.

Here is where the care comes in:

1. It is imperative that you keep the first hole in the center of the broken pin. This will be hard to do but you don't want the bit wandering into the brass frame.

2. It is very likely that the first hole will not be perfectly centered which means that a bit that is exactly the same diameter as that of the pin will bite into the frame.

So you need to watch very carefully what you are doing.

What generally happens is that as you move to larger bits, sooner of later the pin will become loose and just come out. Use of some kind of penetrating oil or release agent will hasten things along.

There is one additional thing you should know and that is that the barrel will remain in place even if one of the pins is missing. Not the best situation but not a reason to discard the pistol.

Others on the forum may have a better technique for getting the pin out.
 
Try one of those powerful rare-earth magnets, maybe it will pull the pin out.
Click to expand...

Not likely. Drilling is the best option and I'm sure the pin didn't break evenly so you want to choke up on the bit as far as you can to keep it straight.
 
I removed these pins on an iron frame '51 with both broken flush.
What I did was drill and tap 2 mm. then turned in a screw with a small piece of (smaller than 2 mm.) under the screw to push the broken pin up.
 
44 Dave--I've read your post several times and am not quite sure I fully comprehend.

I take it that you drilled completely through each of the broken pins...then tapped the drilled hole with a 2mm tap. Then you inserted something through the tapped hole ( like oil or grease?) filling the area behind each pin, which would hydraulically cause the broken pins to be forced back out of the hole, when a 2mm screw was screwed into the tapped hole in each broken pin??

If I understand that somewhat correctly, that is a very clever fix, and better than risking breaking through the steel pin into the brass by drilling if it works.

sIowhand--I have had a broken pin replaced in an 1851 Colt. A friend with a machine shop and drill press was able to drill my broken pin out with a cobalt 3mm metric bit.

My pin was 'stepped' with the barrel side 3mm and the frame side smaller. Mine was a steel frame and fortunately, the frame has a flat side which provided a base for vertically drilling the pin. He drilled the frame side hole out to 3mm, and then was able to use part of the 3mm drill bit to replace the pin.
 
I failed to mention...

If you try to drill out the broken pin remnant, it would be helpful if you have a drill press and something like a drill press vise to hold the frame steady.

If you don't have that then a bench vise to hold the frame while you try to drill it out using a hand held drill.

No bench vise? You can carefully clamp the frame to something solid while you use the hand held drill.

Hartcreek's suggestion of a little heat is (IMO) a good one.
 
I just bought a Pedersoli Plainsman rifle and one of the barrel screws broke off and was stuck inside the brass trigger guard. That is a situation pretty close to yours; steel stuck in brass.

I used a Dremel with a dental drill bit and drilled through the middle of the 4mm screw to relieve the stress and then cut a slot to screw it out. I did that freehand.

In your case, I would drill a hole in the barrel pin at a slight angle, use somme WD40, insert a small steel rod and pull the aligning pin out.
 
slowhand

Reading back through the suggestions, it finally occurs to me that your brass frame might make it a simpler task than with a steel frame. As hartcreek and Doc point out, heat might just be the easiest way for a fix.

Brass will expand more than steel... http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-expansion-metals-d_859.html ...so if you place your frame in your oven and gradually heat the frame, the frame should release the broken pins.

Gravity might do it if the pins are down, but I think I might also try to incorporate a strong magnet as JN01 suggested. Space the magnet (Harbor Fright?) about 1/4" from the pins by wiring it and the frame to the oven's wire shelf. Position it close to the oven window so that you can see the gap between the magnet and frame. The magnet should pull on the pins as the brass expands. Don't heat any more than is needed and watch through the oven window for the pins to be pulled onto the magnet.

Yellow brass melts at 1710 degrees or so. I don't know about tempering brass. Others might suggest a max temperature.
 
I have some photos but have to shrink them before they will post, try to get at it soon.
I used a small piece if something, think it was 1.4 mm., as a "Dutchman" in the 2 mm. hole.
 
I have a question for the OP. Why bother? Not really worth fixing. Not sure why they even sell brass frames. Metal is way too soft to lend itself for taking screws in and out for cleaning or repair. Screws strip so east in brass. Just doesn't make sense to use on a frame.
 
Pietta 1851 Colt Navy , Brass Frame Barrel Pins.

I am a noob here. I have been searching the threads and google for info on how to replace one of these pins. I see a couple things about if they are loose, but what if it is broken off, with the stub still in the brass frame, slightly recessed in the hole ?

A local gunsmith would not touch it, saying the brass is soft and the bit would wander and damage the frame, and that it is safe to shoot with one pin. I don't think he wanted to bother with it.

Ideas ? Just drill slowly and carefully ?
Click to expand...

I ordered a new pair of pins from Cimarron two weeks ago and was told they would ship ' soon '.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

David
Click to expand...

I am thankful that I have a machinist neighbor here in the boontoolies that produces parts for Boeing. I ran this across him and he just laughed at the prospect that a one could do this with a bench vise and a hand drill concerning removing the broken steel pin in a brass frame.

My advice: find a gun-friendly machinist who has specialized tools to do the removal. He is getting close to retirement but his home shop has 3-phase power and a myriad of machines. It can be done but, IMO, not with a bench vise and a hand drill, nor even a standard drill press. It may cost a few bucks but it is worth saving the frame. A lot of folks don't like brassers but I think they have their place. My next purchase will be a Pietta Griswold and Gunnison .36 brass frame with a Dragoon style barrel.

Good luck with your repairs.

Jim
 
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An alternative solution would be to drill a third pair of alignment holes and forget about the broken pin. Epoxy or stake in the new pin into the frame and call it good. It'll look dumb but will be functional (like me). :D
 
I believe that Pietta uses a stepped pin but Uberti uses a straight one. I drilled my Pietta for 3 mm. and soldered the pins in with Tix low temp. solder.
 
I have only had to remove three or four pins in the last five or six years...

....Some from steel frames and some from brass frames. I have a milling machine but in every case I used the drill press and drill press vise.

In every case, once I drilled the small centered hole and moved to a larger bit, the bit caught the remnant of the pin and started to turn the pin in the hole. Some were stuck to the end of the drill and came out when the drill was retracted. Others came out with a scribe by just picking them out.

I have also shot pistols which had only one pin (other one broke) without any problem. Doesn't look pretty when you clean the pistol but I notice no degradation in performance or function.

I understand AKEXPAT's machinist chuckling at the thought of clamping the frame in a vise and using a hand held drill. But if you:

1. Can't find a gunsmith or machinist to help you out
2. Don't have a drill press
3. Feel as though you absolutely have to replace the pin

Your options are reduced to the very undesirable. This is why I said use extreme caution. Or better yet, leave it alone.

As regards heat, you can do a pretty good job of getting the heat where you want it by using a heat gun or in the absence of that perhaps a hair dryer. The elements in my heat gun get to 1200 degrees. I can quickly get a piece of metal so hot I can't even think about touching it. I never had to resort to a hair dryer but they work the same way and the elements get red hot.
 
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Thanks

I appreciate all the suggestions, thanks so much !
I will look closely at the new pins when they arrive. I have a vise and drill, and have access to a drill press ( not sure about a drill press vise ). I will post pix soon.

has anyone used something called JB weld on repairs such as this ?

Again, thank you to all who posted suggestions and tips.

David
 
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