Peruta v. San Diego

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Here's where I get lost. Doesn't the statute say something about a person's good cause being able to distinguish themselves from the general populace, which is how they decided unspecific/generic/precautionary self defense wasn't good enough in the first place?
No, that's how the county and sheriff applied it. The statute begins:
(a) When a person applies for a license to carry a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, the sheriff of a county may issue a license to that person upon proof of all of the following:
(1) The applicant is of good moral character.
(2) Good cause exists for issuance of the license. . . .
Cal. Penal Code § 26150.

The majority in Peruta refers to the San Diego application of the statute:

California law delegates to each city and county the power to issue a written policy setting forth the procedures for obtaining a concealed-carry license. Id. § 26160. San Diego County has issued such a policy. At issue in this appeal is that policy’s interpretation of the “good cause” requirement found in sections 26150 and 26155: “[A] set of circumstances that distinguish the applicant from the mainstream and causes him or her to be placed in harm’s way.” Good cause is “evaluated on an individual basis” and may arise in “situations related to personal protection as well as those related to individual businesses or occupations.” But—important here—concern for “one’s personal safety alone is not considered good cause.”
Peruta at p. 3. So, perhaps the opinion could have been just a bit clearer this was the policy they were quoting, not the statute.
 
would make our violent crime rate look a lot like Switzerland. (Where, by the way, most households keep a REAL assault weapon, and a cache of ammo).

I'd be careful about using that argument. Last month I was on vacation, met a young Swiss couple on their honeymoon. He is an officer in the Swiss military, and told me that yes, many individuals (himself included) keep an assault weapon at home, but that ammo in the home is illegal (for him as well). We both shook our heads at the stupidity of politicians worldwide.

I was suprised -- I thought as you do. Just an FYI, don't want to derail the thread.

As for the Brady campaign, I'm very glad they filed their silly document. It cheapens the act of the AG, and imo makes it easier to dismiss.
 
Thanks for clarifying on the ammo issue in Switzerland. It's been some time since i looked into it. Nevertheless, I think the bulk of my argument stands. My point about the low crime rate of CCW permitees relies mostly on the FLA record where the number of permits revoked for either criminal or administrative reasons. Florida, of course, has perhaps the longest history from which to draw data.

http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2013/10/number-of-concealed-handgun-permits-in.html

From John Lott's website:
Number of Concealed handgun permits in Florida reaches 1,177,051 in September 30, 2013
With 2,541,460 permits issued and 168 revoked for revocations for firearm violations, the rate of Florida concealed handgun permits that have been revoked for firearm violations is only 0.0066 percent. Since January 2008, there have only been 4 revocations for any type of firearms related violation -- an annual rate of about 0.696 revocations. With an average of about 850,000 permit holders over that period, that is an annual revocation rate of 0.00008 percent, or less than one ten thousandth of one percent.

This data is very compelling and I can't imagine how the CA AG could make an empirical case that CCW licensees create a measurable public safety hazard. Any panel of judges that's doing its job will hold the AG's feet to the fire and she will lose this argument.
 
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Reference my post 221 on standing of AG Harris, the supplemental brief filed by Gura in the Supreme Court in Drake mentions the standing issue as a complication for Pertua making its way to the Supreme Court:
And any plans by California’s Attorney General to intervene and seek rehearing might be complicated by the panel’s belief that its decision did not implicate any state statutes.
However, he also refers to a previous footnote where he opines that there would not be much left of the "good cause" requirement of the California statute if a constitutional self-defense interest" constituted good cause.
 
This data is very compelling
Looking at what little you've quoted it's not nearly as compelling as the Texas study. They broke down the rate of 21+ holders, and non-holders, males, and females, and types of crimes that would result in the revocation of a Texas CHL.
 
Yesterday, the mandate was stayed pending a decision of rehearing the case, en banc. Instead of uploading the file, I'll just quote it, as it is very short:

Before: O’SCANNLAIN, THOMAS, and CALLAHAN, Circuit Judges.

The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence’s Motion to Extend Time for Filing a Petition for Rehearing En Banc and Stay the Issuance of the Mandate, and Proposed Intervenor State of California’s Motion to Extend Time to File a Petition for Rehearing En Banc and Stay Issuance of the Mandate, both filed with this Court on February 27, 2014, are GRANTED. Any proposed petitions for rehearing filed with this Court by February 27, 2014 will be considered timely if this Court grants the petitioners’ concurrently filed motions to intervene. This order does not extend the time for filing petitions for rehearing for any petitioner who did not move to intervene by February 27, 2014.

Submission with respect to the pending motions to intervene is deferred pending further order of the Court. Issuance of the mandate is stayed pending further order of the Court.

So, anything that was filed on the 27th was OK. Filing after Thursday date will be considered as being filed in an untimely manner (it will be rejected). The issuance of the mandate is now stayed until the whole court decides what it is going to do.
 
Looking at what little you've quoted it's not nearly as compelling as the Texas study. They broke down the rate of 21+ holders, and non-holders, males, and females, and types of crimes that would result in the revocation of a Texas CHL.

The TX data is easy to get to. Given what some think of the people in the state, the stats are...compelling.

Mr. Norris, I saw a comment in another blog that Peruta does not become effective until the time has run for an appeal to SCOTUS.

I thought this incorrect. I thought that if the en banc clock runs out with no action, Peruta then applies...unless and until someone files with SCOTUS (within the 90 day period).

Please advise.
 
Money and power.

I've come to the conclusion that the gun control lobby has transitioned to delay mode. They believe they are likely to lose many/most of these cases and when they do they take the route that creates the longest delay. When they can delay no further they will simply make a minor change in the law and reset the game.
Absolutely correct, until WE stop playing the "elect the incumbent" game over and over again. However, in California, with the rules they have for voting "rights", they have the ability, like Chicago, to stack the deck illegally with no worries about being caught or prosecuted IF caught.
Every time we try to protect VOTING rights we end up in the same dilemma, fighting it all the way up to SCOTUS because it might "infringe" on the power of the Federal Government.
 
Is there a way for CA AG Kamala Harris to appeal the case to the Supreme Court if there either isn't an en banc hearing or the decision of the en banc court reaffirms Peruta?

I didn't think there was a way for someone who wasn't party to the original lawsuit to ask for an en banc hearing... but she obviously did, so now I'm wondering if there is some other possible legal maneuver that the defendants could use to appeal to SCOTUS.
 
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Is there a way for CA AG Kamala Harris to appeal the case to the Supreme Court if there either isn't an en banc hearing or the decision of the en banc court reaffirms Peruta?

I didn't think there was a way for someone who wasn't party to the original lawsuit to ask for an en back hearing... but she obviously did, so now I'm wondering if there is some other possible legal maneuver that the defendants could use to appeal to SCOTUS.
Actually, her position as a party in Peruta is up in the air. She has filed a motion to intervene which, if granted, would make her a party. If granted and the court denies rehearing en banc or agrees with the three judge panel, she could then appeal to the Supreme Court.
 
I thought this incorrect. I thought that if the en banc clock runs out with no action, Peruta then applies...unless and until someone files with SCOTUS (within the 90 day period).
If I understand this correctly, the Peruta opinion became 'good law' on Feb 13, when it was issued. Last Friday, the direction to the lower court - to issue an opinion conforming to the Feb 13 opinion - was stayed.

If it should be taken en banc, then the Feb 13 document becomes an 'un-opinion'. Rehearing will result in a new opinion, 'over-writing' the previous one, though it should be possible for the larger panel to say 'we affirm the opinion issued Feb 13'.

If not taken en banc, it might still be accepted for certiorari, and part of the petition for that might be a request for a stay of the opinion, which may or may not be granted.
 
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This is why I think that the Motion to Intervene will be granted and the Petition for en banc will be denied.

That allows the AG to petition for cert. It's a fast track to the Supreme Court.

Should things happen in this manner, fast enough, Drake may well be held until the Court decides what it will do with Peruta.

[after posting this, I really expect KCBrown (from CalGuns.net) to come along and tell me how wrong I am]
 
If granted status as an intervening party for the purposes of her en banc request, and if Peruta is upheld, I wonder if there any chance AG Harris would decline to file for cert. (ala Moore/Madigan)

As much as I would like to see Peruta's decision applied to the entire country, I'm not sure it's worth betting the bank on it. The 9th is a huge circuit. That's a LOT of folks who have waited a long time for the restoration of their rights. Part of me just wants to keep the win and let another case come along to spread the love nationwide. I realize that strategy is of little comfort to our friends in NJ, MD, NY, etc.
 
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maestro pistolero, some part of me wants to agree with you, especially being in San Diego, but I'm pretty certain that the SCOTUS would uphold the right to bear arms outside of the home. In light of that, I guess I can wait a couple years to get a CCW in CA if it helps out the whole country. Then again, I'll have moved to a free state by then.
 
Anti's revving up.

Summary of briefs filed against Peruta and urging en banc:

02/27/2014 121 Filed (ECF) Amici Curiae California Peace Officers Association and California Police Chiefs Association petition for rehearing en banc (from 02/13/2014 opinion). Date of service: 02/27/2014. [8996109]--[COURT UPDATE: Attached searchable version of petition. Resent NDA. 02/27/2014 by RY] (PRC)
02/27/2014 122 Submitted (ECF) Intervenor brief for review and filed Motion to intervene. Submitted by State of California. Date of service: 02/27/2014. [8996638] (GDB)
02/27/2014 123 Submitted (ECF) Intervenor brief for review and filed Motion to intervene. Submitted by Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence. Date of service: 02/27/2014. [8996736] (NRO)
02/27/2014 124 Filed (ECF) Amicus Curiae Legal Community Against Violence petition for rehearing en banc (from 02/13/2014 opinion). Date of service: 02/27/2014. [8996737] (SJF)

http://onlygunsandmoney.blogspot.com/2014/02/antis-seek-en-banc-review-of-peruta.html

I thought this is relevant because of the two petitions to be granted standing. As said before, if the standing to intervene is granted and en banc denied, then those with standing can go to SCOTUS, which can put a hold on any permits filed under Peruta. The 9th clearly decided to accept these briefs, so they are all runners.

Question: Does a petition for en banc create standing to file for cert in the same way a petition for intervention does, also?
 
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My prediction, as posted at Maryland Shooters:

I think they reluctantly grant State AG Kamala Harris status as an intervenor, scold her for the procedural blunder of refusing to be a party then whining about the result, then deny the en banc review just to cover their bases.

It IS the state AG, after all. Everybody knows this issue is about as ripe as it can get, and will not be resolved short of SCOTUS intervention.

Neither the AG's nor the Brady's brief add anything to the case besides a little foot stomping, and parroting of the dissent. The public safety objection is tired, weak, unsubstantiated and largely irrelevant, especially in the absence of any credible data that gun licensees create an elevated threat to the public.

The noose tightens . . . .
 
I bet Harris gets something out of this as a political sop to the "liberal" constituencies.

She ought to be hoisted on her own petard, IMO, because in fact her dog is NOT in this fight. The CA AG doesn't enforce any laws about carry permits, and doesn't write them.

Ms. Harris should learn to be more careful in her thinking. She isn't, especially when it comes to the engineering and manufacturing implications of microstamping. She has spent no time at either trade, but she "knows it's feasible". Too clever by half.
 
This is why I think that the Motion to Intervene will be granted and the Petition for en banc will be denied.

That allows the AG to petition for cert. It's a fast track to the Supreme Court.

And that's why I HOPE so. Regardless of whether you're the dog, or the pony in this show, I have to imagine you want to get an answer one way or the other. O'Scannlain appears to have a great deal of respect for the process, judging from his opinion and his answer to why he wants the 9th split. I wouldn't be surprised if he cares less about what the answer is, than he does about getting an unequivocal answer all the courts can follow- from the way he was tearing into sister courts.
 
And that's why I HOPE so. Regardless of whether you're the dog, or the pony in this show, I have to imagine you want to get an answer one way or the other. O'Scannlain appears to have a great deal of respect for the process, judging from his opinion and his answer to why he wants the 9th split. I wouldn't be surprised if he cares less about what the answer is, than he does about getting an unequivocal answer all the courts can follow- from the way he was tearing into sister courts.

Yes, you make a good point. I would rather Peruta stand, eviscerate "good cause" and get a permit. I guess a year later, the remaining states and circuits still on "may" or functional "no" issue will look at the sillier.

At the rate felons are being released, the sooner I can carry the happier I will be. I'd love a win at SCOTUS and that is the moral thing to do, but...
 
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