Personal Weapons in Iraq?

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Beretta686

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I was at the gunshow the other day and overheard a crusty old CSM talking about how when he went to Iraq that he brought his privately owned 1911 with him and carried it around with him on his tour. Now I know that CSMs & WO5s can basically do what they please without interferance from anyone short of God. But what is the actual policy on personally owned weapons in Iraq or Afghanistan? Can the average Joe bring a private handgun with him in theater (assuming its registered on post, etc.)?
 
I've heard a bunch of diffrent things. Some folks say no and some folks say its okay if your CO approves it. That being said:from what I hear some guy in one of the other Companies of my reserve unit got in deep do-do when they found hollow-point ammo and than his personal weapon when he returned from Iraq.


ssg: I didn't know that Iraqi weapons where a no-go. I heard some Cav guys talking about how when they took one of Saddam's palaces, they found a cache of weapons, and the troop commander was rolling around with an MP-5 the rest of the deployment. But that was at the beggining of the conflict, so things may of changed.
 
Military personnel are not allowed to carry personal side arms anymore. The reasoning is I think essentially legal- if you are supervising someone who uses something that contravenes the geneva convention you are potentially open to prosecution for war crimes.
 
Are sidearms against the Geneva Convention?
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No, Geneva Convention deals with PWO's. Things like hollow points are prohibited by the Hauge Convention. I'd imagine the officers and lawyers got better things to do then check everyone's private weapons to ensure they conform.
 
The policy of the Army has been "no personal weapons" and "no captured weapons taken home" for something like the last 30+ years. People have gotten away with violations, of course.
 
Castle Bravo has it right.

You can get away with things, you normally will not get them back into CONUS. About the best you can get away with is using your own upper on an M16, but there's not really much point in doing this unless you are stuck with an M16A4/A2 and have a real need for an M4 length weapon. Better to get Uncle's stuff destroyed and worn out, rather than your own. This from a guy who still has $1500 worth of hardware in country that he's trying to get back.

You could bring a 1911 or other real handgun, but I never had the real need. If you properly maintain and lube your M16, and it's fairly new, you'll not have problems. I went through 2000+ rds in Iraq to include three 10 minute+ firefights, and never had a stoppage. None of my Marines had a stoppage that I recall them mentioning either, and I asked in every debrief. S/F....Ken M
 
My brother currently is serving in Iraq with an Army Reserve unit. He is a non-com and according to him, personal firearms of any sort are strictly forbidden. He was not issued a handgun and thought he might be able to purchase one there, but was told that he couldn't. He was very dissappointed about this, because he often drives with convoys and said its a real pain to drive with one hand on the wheel and one hand holding a rifle laying with its barrel pointed towards the door.

I would imagine things are different for different units regarding the "law" and the "application of the law," but his unit seems pretty strict about this one.

My brother also made an interesting observation, the truth of which I cannot assess. He said that the average Iraqi on the street seems to respect a soldier with a handgun far more than a soldier with rifle. He said it had to do with their perception of authority. Anybody ever heard of this?
 
from my Cousin ( who served both in Iraq and Afghanistan ), I gather the actual "rules" [ as opposed to the SOP! ] are substantially different. They would often use the "locals" rifles when they were moving with/embedded with the local forces.

of course, I can see the brass making them dress in local clothing/etc to blend in.. but still require them to carry the M4!
 
Personally owned weapons are forbidden to possess or carry in the CENTCOM AOR.

Now, having said that, quite a few personnel in III Corps managed an elegant circumvention of the rules, are were able to both deploy and redeploy with their personally owned weapons.

STEP ONE: The appropriate side arm (I have only heard of this with pistols, not long arms) was registered on post with the Provost Marshall.

STEP TWO: The unit commander requested that the weapon be added to his Property Book for the duration of the deployment.

STEP THREE: The service member deployed and then redeployed with the weapon.

STEP FOUR: As the deployment was over, the commander released all "deployment only" weapons back to their owners.


As I gather it, this allowed JAG to screen weapons and confirm that they wouldn't in some way violate the Laws of Land warfare. They also covered the soldier if the weapon was used in anger. The only restrictions I have heard were caliber (.45 or 9mm only) because absolutely no privately purchased ammunition of any kind could be used in the weapons; strictly Gov't issue ammo all the way.
 
Lief: Your comment about them fearing handguns made me remember a presentation I saw by a Col. returning from Iraq. He said that the Iraqis have little fear of the troop's M4s, Machine Guns and all the other stuff we would normally be more afraid of. He said that they could all draw down on an Iraqi who appeared as a threat, and it wouldn't phase them. But when someone would bring out a handgun, they would freak out.
The Col. said they couldn't figure out why they would be so frightened by a punny 9mm compared to an .50, but they had a local tell them that during Saddam's rule all exectutions where done by pistol. Thus when a soldier pulls a handgun, the Iraqi thinks he's about to get whacked for sure.
 
I really doubt there is any law, since Marine and Navy personnel have been toting personal sidearms for quite awhile, and certainly were doing it during the first gulf war. Sounds like an Army reg.
 
Handy: MNCI GO #1

Unfortunately Handy, there is a regulation. It's called CENTCOM General Order #1, and it has always prohibited Personally Owned Weapons ever since it's inception in the mid-90s. CENTCOM GO #1 applies to people from Somalia to Afghanistan. It is usually further supplemented by country specific regs. This is the most current version of General Order #1 covering folks in Iraq.

GENERAL ORDER NUMBER 1 (cO-1)
TITLE: Prohibited Activities for U.S Department of Defense Personnel Assigned to the Multi-National Corps - lraq (MNC-l) or Present Within the MNC-l Area of Responsibility (AoR).

PURPOSE: To identify conduct that is prejudicial to the maintenance of good order and discipline of all forces assigned to the MNC-I or present within the MNC-I AOR.

AUTHORITY: United States Central Command (USCENTCOM), General Order 1A (GO-1A), dated 19 Dec 00; Amendment to GO-1A, dated 9 Aug 03.

APPLICABILITY: This General Order is applicable to all United States military personnel, and to civilians serving with, employed by, or accompanying the Armed Forces of the United States, while assigned to the MNC-I or while present in the MNC-I AOR except for personnel expressly excluded under USCENTCOM GO-1A. This General Order also applies to all United States military personnel, and to civilians serving with, employed by, or accompanying the Armed Forces of the United States, while under the operational control of the Commander, MNC-l and present for duty in
Kuwait or lraq. Such duty includes but is not limited to pre-deployment site surveys, leader's recons, and advanced party deployments. This General Order is not applicable to any personnel assigned to XVlllAirborne Corps (Rear) or personnel located outside the USCENTCOM AOR.
1. STATEMENT OF MILITARY PURPOSE AND NECESSITY: [removed by IZHUMINETER as non-pertinent]
2. PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES: In accordance with and in addition to USCENTCOM GO-1A, the following activities are prohibited:
a. Purchase, possession, use or sale of privately owned firearms, ammunition, explosives, or the introduction of these items into the MNC-l AOR

Read it yourself at < https://www.1cc.balad.iraq.centcom.mil/SUBS/General Order 1.PDF >
 
"I know that CSMs & WO5s can basically do what they please without interferance from anyone short of God."
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I believe the very first post encapsulates the crux of the matter; E-8s/9s, CWO-4s/5s, and Field Grade officers are much less likely to be constrained in this area than is the “typical” service member. Whether that provides good “leadership by example”, I will leave to readers to evaluate.
 
Exceptions to every rule

Does THIS LOOK LIKE US ISSUE??? For every RULE there ARE EXCEPTIONS. Especially for Spec Op guys, who carry pretty much whatever they wish.

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OK- Personal weapons are prohibited as IZ said.

secondly, just because an SF guy has something unusual like the Krinkov, doesn't mean it is personally owned. Those guys have the most wonderful arms rooms around. They have their pick of anything they want pretty much. If they want it, but don't have it, that's what the Gov't AMEX is for.

I'm not sure I want units running around with different weapon's and different calibers. When we deployed, it was vitally important that each ruck sack and duffle bag be packed just so, so we could get to what we need should our friend become unlucky. I'd hate to find a bunch of 1911 mags when all I had was an M-9 or Makarov. I would like to see more side-arms issued for MOUT, but really now, I've heard few complaints about the M-4. Not enough to justify everybody packing whatever they want.

JMO.
 
No personal weapons. Some will break the rules, and get away with it. But I don't know of many senior personnel who will put their butts on the line so another soldier can carry his Kimber. I'll report it if I see it.
 
I have heard that Iraqis react to sidearms, but that they react even more to knives. One of my co-workers was detached to Iraq and she reported that when she drew Gurkha bodyguards, the Iraqis were very respectful when they saw the Gurkhas' kukris.
 
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