Personal Protection - black powder????

Ok, thanks to all for the replies. It would seem then that BP would not be most people's first choice for self defense, but I suppose it would be better than nothing at all, correct? What about conceal-carry? I would imagine it would be much too unwieldly? Also, the legality of such is interesting. One the one hand, BP does not require a permit, yet one would be required for conceal-carry purposes, no? What about in cities that have anti-gun laws such as NYC, Chicago, and other like cities? Would their laws also apply to BP, in homes and carry?

In case anyone is wondering, I was looking at a repro m.1849 pocket colt with a short barrel, .36 caliber. Nice little thing, but I wanted to know if there was any practical use for it other than hobby/plinking, hence the SD question. The grip is almost larger than the gun itself, and would show very easily through clothing in an CC case.
 
I've been shooting BP for 50 some years - everything from revolver to musket to cannons. To answer the OPs inquiry - yes, you can carry a BP revolver and use it for SD - but, you want to make sure your caps are on securely, etc. A Colt was usually cocked after firing by raising the muzzle up so that cap fragments could escape frim the hammer channel, etc. if there were any. I love BP but I'm not going to use it for SD as you can have misfires - cause? Could be bad caps, worn nipples, etc.

As an added note - chainfires are not caused by jammed caps. I have witnessed four chainfires in 50 years. One, the guy was shooting blanks - utilizing BP and toilet paper for wadding. The idiot didn't seal the ends of the chambers so on the first shot, fire traveled to all the other chambers and ignited the toilet paper and thus multiple discharges. Two, upon inspection were believed to have been caused by utilizing caps that did not fit the nipple correctly - and one was believed to have been instigated by a ball not being large enough (it was believed to have been egg shaped when his unfired balls were examined and it was determined that some were not the proper size). Even though the guy claimed he got a good lead ring when he seated the round balls in each chamber, we felt that there must have been the slightest gap that allowed flame to enter and go past the ball which made just that one chamber discharge.

So to answer the question - yes you can carry a BP pistol for CC if you want to or use it for SD at home - just remember that you are going to have one big flash (not to mention a lot of smoke) on your first shot and if it is in darkness, you'll probably be firing blindly after that. If a person has confidence in their BP weapon that it will discharge properly on each shot, then by all means "have at it". For myself, even though I love my SA Colts and Remingtons, I'm still going to carry something that I know will go off and whcih I can quickly reload if necessary.
 
When I was 16 & it was all I could afford to shoot bigger than a .22, I carried a .36 in the boonies for defensive purposes.
Today, it's an extremely bad choice.

I've had misfires with good caps, I've had a chainfire, I've had a hand spring break, and those are all on top of the no-reload option & the need to change out the powder periodically.

Deadly force rules & principles still apply, regardless of whether your local authorities require permits for a percussion revolver or not, and in my state, at least, by state law a percussion gun IS a gun & subject to all of the restrictions of concealed carry that any other gun is.

If that's all you have, you do the best you can.
If you have a choice, you make a better one.
Denis
 
One the one hand, BP does not require a permit,
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Bear in mind that by federal regulations BP isn't regulated.
State and local laws can also apply.
BP may not be a firearm to the feds, but, it may fall under some other state or local law.

What about conceal-carry? I would imagine it would be much too unwieldly
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Actually, not at all. Some, like the 1862 Colt Pocket conceal very well & have excellent erog's. It handles a whole lot better than a S&W J frame - IMHO.

Plus - as others point out - the reliability factor is very low.
Ignition system aside, the majority of the BP revolvers are based on some pretty weak designs.

My other BP gun, an 1851 Navy is all broken up inside. I need to replace most, if not all of the parts inside to get it back to where it will rotate the cylinder.

On the plus side though,,,despite having to rotate the cylinder by hand,,,it's still a functional and lethal 6 shooter.


BTW - BP does or did have one other neat little quirk. You could mail order a BP revolver and mail order a Mason-Richards conversion and turn it into a cartridge user.
I may still do that with my 1851 Navy & turn it into a .38 Spl.
 
Them BPs are very accurate with the newer sabot rounds.
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They don't make sabots for revolvers.

BTW - BP does or did have one other neat little quirk. You could mail order a BP revolver and mail order a Mason-Richards conversion and turn it into a cartridge user.
I may still do that with my 1851 Navy & turn it into a .38 Spl.
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You will have to use hollow based bullets or heeled bullets. A modern .357 sized bullet doesn't work very well out of a .375 bore.


I personally wouldn't feel undergunned or disadvantaged with a bp revolver but it wouldn't be my first choice for sd.
 
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Wild Bill and many others who carried cap and ball revolvers (and pistols), ALSO carried Bowie knives or Daggers, due to the aforementined reliability issues. Buy a snub .38, .380 ACP or a .45 ACP to carry.
 
You will have to use hollow based bullets or heeled bullets. A modern .357 sized bullet doesn't work very well out of a .375 bore.
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Not a problem!
I have a mold for heeled bullets. :)


BTW - I owe you a big thanks also! I haven't looked in years, but, this thread and the .375 bore had me visit Dixie Gun Works.
I found out that for about $30/$40, I can replace the broken parts in the 1851 Navy and get it working again.
 
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I have decided to build a Colt clone snubnose cap and ball revolver but just have not decided on what frame size yet. Colts first factory shipped snub noses were built on the 36 cal. Pocket Police half of which were sold to the Mormon Church. These guns picked up the nick name of "Avenging Angels". I'm sure this is the way I'm going to go for a BP snub and I will carry it now and then at times that I feel a low risk level of having to use it.
 
Colts first factory shipped snub noses were built on the 36 cal. Pocket Police half of which were sold to the Mormon Church. These guns picked up the nick name of "Avenging Angels".
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Colt didn't make those. They were cut downs and most that I've seen anything of were 51 Navies.
 
Hand, handspring and cylinder stop. The trigger and stop spring could stand reelacing too.
While I'm at it, one of the $20 screw kits might not be a bad idea.
I've had the gun for a long time & in my younger days I didn't always take care to use the right sized screwdriver
 
Colt didn't make those. They were cut downs and most that I've seen anything of were 51 Navies.
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I guess someone should set Dennis Adler straight on this and the many others who I have read in past articles about the subject. In "Guns of the American West" (page 23) Dennis Adler gives an example from his collection of the Avenging Angel built on a 1862 Pocket Police and states that it is a Pocket Police and that they were Colts first snub nose revolvers. I'd say unless of course you want to consider a 3" barrel gun a snub nose and then the Baby Dragoons that were produced in as short as 3" barrels would be Colts first snub nose guns. True the 2" to 2 1/2" Pocket Police guns were probally not a catalouge item but done as custom orders by them.
 
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I cant find any reference to Colt ever making them. AFAIK Colt only made percussion revolvers in standard lengths. However they would make any length barrel you wanted for a dollar an inch extra. I assume that went for shorter as well as longer. I don't see Mormons paying four dollars extra when they could pay a gunsmith 50 cents to cut one down or do it themselves.
 
One the one hand, BP does not require a permit, yet one would be required for conceal-carry purposes, no? What about in cities that have anti-gun laws such as NYC, Chicago, and other like cities? Would their laws also apply to BP, in homes and carry?
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I can't speak to NYC, but in New York State, you can buy a BP pistol and not have it on your pistol permit until you load it. Once you load it, New York considers it to be a firearm. If you're caught with it loaded and it's not on your permit, you are in deep kimchee.
 
Hawg Haggen, I paid the dollar an inch and had Colt do this one. while not a cap and ball it has shot some black powder loads.

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Cool but if you had the custom shop do it it cost a little more than a buck. Or anybody else for that matter.:p
 
Hal said:
Bear in mind that by federal regulations BP isn't regulated.
State and local laws can also apply.
BP may not be a firearm to the feds, but, it may fall under some other state or local law.
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Very good advice. It's dangerous to assume that just because federal laws don't apply to BP firearms that you're home free at the State level.
 
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