Personal Affronts and Insults -- A Question

R

Regular Daddy

Inactive
(please excuse the pretentious title, I've been writing all day)

Hi all, I'm a long-time TFL lurker (3+ years), but something has dragged me out of the woodwork today, and I need some advice.


First, let me describe myself a little. Like most of you, I tend to keep to myself. I do not impose myself on other people; I let them live their lives while I live mine. Simple as that.

However, though I do not start trouble, I am terribly intolerant of people trampling over my personal space and showing a complete lack of respect for myself and others. This includes making an ungodly amount of noise after 3am, throwing beer bottles, driving over my damn lawn (though to be fair, this only happened once), and other things. For the curious, yes, I do live in a town full of college students. Violent crime here is virtually nonexistant, while petty crime is rampant and the police seem to care very little about it. I don't pick fights with people who do things like this, but I do not hesitate to confront them, and if they choose to get physical, then I deal with it and the situation usually resolves itself for the better. At least, that's how I used to do things.


But now I find myself getting closer and closer to carrying a concealed weapon, probably a pocket pistol. I know from my experience here, and the collective experience of TFL members, that when you are carrying a firearm, you give up your ability to react to petty insults. But where do you draw the line? Even now, when I am not carrying, I give people some leeway when it comes to purely verbal abuse. If you want to yell something at me from across the street, hey, go for it sparky, and have a good time.

I understand that a minor confrontation can escalate into a fight, and a fight can escalate into a life-threatening situation, and that if I am carrying a firearm, I may very well need to use it. That is certainly not a situation I want to get myself into, because in the end, it would pretty much look like I picked a fight with a guy and then shot him. I don't expect the law to focus on the fact that the other guy escalated the situation before I did.


So do you become a doormat just beacuse you carry? Do you let people harass you and intrude into your personal boundaries because you might end up in a fight with them? If that's the way things work, I don't think I want to carry until I'm living amongst responsible adults (ironically, I am living with "adults").


I want to hear lots of opinions and advice and anecdotes. TFL, don't disappoint me. :p


edit: Oh, and for reference, the event today that made me ask this question is I was almost run over while walking through a crosswalk by someone who either legitimately didn't see me, or didn't care and assumed I'd get out of his way.

edit2: And a clarification. I'm not talking about brandishing a weapon in response to this sort of thing, I'm talking about verbal confrontations with people when you're carrying, ones which you have no intention of escalating.


-- Chris
 
Well it's about time you dragged yourself out of the woodwork!!!!


:D


So what do I say? Welcome? You've been around too long for that! Okay, welcome to active participation then!


Good question. Yes, you will have to accept a lot of stuff and just walk away with your mouth shut. You can't flip the bird to that guy that cut you off or tailgated. Think twice before you say something to that foul mouthed punk (but I repeat myself) who is filling your 3 year old's ears with filth. There are a lot of things you'll have to do that you should NOT have to do, but that's the world we live in.



Where to draw the line? Nobody but you can decide that, but be sure you understand the consequences of that decision. The law is pretty clear about dragging that thing out and using it. You'd better have a reason that will stand up to the legal system.

Notice I didn't say the "justice system". We don't have one of those.
 
Even if you don't actually draw your weapon, the possibility exists that it will end up in the other guys hands....bad show all around.
 
Does this sort of thing happen to you that often? It must be once a year that I would have "words" with anyone, if that.


You could cut to the chase by just immediately shooting anyone who bothers you, before it escalates. ;)
 
Yep, you'll have to simply ignore "bad manners" if you're armed. It may stick in the craw a bit at first, but you can walk away, smile to yourself and think, "if only they knew how lucky they are." ;)

Denny
 
The book "Verbal Judo" is a excellent book on how to deal with verbal situations. I forgot the author, but the paperback is around $12 - $15 at amazon.com
Hemi
 
I have to agree with the rest. You really do need to be more controled than the average joe. I have even noticed that I have slowed down on the road. If someone is gettn' mouthy, ya dont have to provoke them verbaly (not saying that YOU do) to get your point accross or "not get walked on" We all know when something we are about to say is packaged in a way that is going to anger someone.Dont escalate. You also have the ability to get your point of view accross without being beligerant,BUT if it is a petty argument over something you get involved with while out WALK AWAY. If your at home and ya catch some young 20 somethin givin your grass a ****ty or pee'in in your shrubs, go outside unarmed, like you always have.
 
When you are carrying leave your macho at home. You have the basic right to use lethal force to prevent death or serious injury. Words are neither ! It looks very bad in court when it is shown that you escalated a situation.
 
Chris, . . . You didn't indicate your state of residence; but I can tell you how Ohio is. Bad!

Our CCW law is better than nothing, but we are very seriously, seriously, seriously hindered in what we can do: legally. I found that out by intentionally working our instructors during our "legal" class (they were both police officers). Their recommendation was that if there was any possibility that I had either initiated the confrontation, . . . or escalated the confrontation, . . . when it became life/death, . . . I was still on shaky ground because I has a participant in the initiation/escalation. In other words, I have to be purely defensive ALL THE TIME, . . . I cannot do anything that would give rise to the DA that I was culpable also.

OK, . . . I/you may have to eat a little crow now and then. Carry a salt shaker.

I can go home knowing that my eating crow was infinitely better than a lethal confrontation, . . . even if I am the one walking away.

One of the greatest definition/analogy I have ever heard concerns the Bible figure, Moses. He had such a source of power in his prayer and prophetic life that it beggars description, . . . yet he was considered one of the meekest persons ever in the Bible. Meekness = power/authority under control. Many times he coule have used his power, . . . but chose not to do so.

We need to be the same way, . . . go home knowing you may have been dissed by some gutter maggot, . . . but that your socks have a greater value than him and 10 like him. :D

May God bless,
Dwight
 
The ONLY time you are justified in using -- or threatening the use of -- deadly force is when you are legitimately in fear for your life or severe bodily harm.
 
Get ready to put up with more than your fair share of crap. As mentioned above, it will burn you up real good at first. What you must realize is that there is nothing, absolutely nothing, that a person can say that is worthy of death. Any time you give into a verbal sparring match that's what is getting set up - a person's words leading to something tragic. Be the better man and let it go. If they call you a coward, so be it. If they call your wife/girl friend or children names, let it go. It's not easy but it is necessary.

Where do you draw the line? It's hard to say, and your state laws govern what you are legally entitled to do and under what circumstances. For me, and this is not advice - just my personal way of handling a situation, I attempt to leave the area. If the person(s) block my way I clearly state that all I want to do is leave without any trouble. If they persist in blocking my retreat I state, in a clear and loud voice so that any potential witnesses can hear, that I want to leave the area and that I am in fear for my safety and life (and any others with me), and that I will react accordingly, they have been warned. If the threat continues I then deal with it in an appropriate manner. Now, this assumes you have the time to be this verbal. Sometimes you don't, you just have to act/react as things unfold.

It is good that you have thought about this before carrying. If anything, those of us who choose to arm ourselves must be more meek and forgiving than the general public because any altercation could end with more than bruised egos on both sides of the fight. Just keep a cool head, use common sense, train, and know the laws of your state.

Hope this helps.
 
I brought this subject up for discussion in my CCW class too.

When you are carrying, you give up the right to defend your honor.

An armed society is a polite society for more reasons than one...
 
If you let someone upset you with his words, then you have elevated his opinion of you over your own. That ain't gonna happen with me. I never did figure out why some stranger's opinion regarding me , would outweigh my own.
I don't carry to address slights, I carry for the off chance that my life, or the life of a loved one might be put at risk.
I could care less what others say, or think, but I darn sure won't tolerate a physical assault.
 
You can even take the gun out of the equation.

Avoidance is the best policy even if you are not armed.

Anyone remember the "Hockey Dad" story....he didn't start it...he came out the victor, but he still went to jail.

Stick and stones :cool:
 
The use, or threatened use of deadly force in anything less than a life threatening situation puts you in moral and legal doo doo. Carry to protect your life, not your honor/ego :)
 
You draw the line where the law proscribes where. You may only use deadly force if you are in reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury to yourself or others.

Responding to insults will not go over well with the prosecution in Problem #2. I find living well to be the best response to insults! :cool:
 
Look Dude, just because you carry doesn't mean you have to be a rug for every struting loud mouth punk that wants to give you some crap. It also doesn't mean I'm going to push something to the point of where I have to draw to protect my self.
Example...My wrong approach...Some months ago I was involved in a road rage incident where a women almost rear ended me, near my house, followed me flipping me off, honking, and screeming vulgarities at me. She followed me for almost 2 miles doing this.
Over the rest of the day I had actually forgot about it.
At 15:30 my door bell rings, I answer it and step out onto the pourch. The guy there looks a bit shocked and steps back. I ask if I can help him, then then gets a frown and says "who owns the white truck?" I say I do, he says "Well get you ass over to my truck and say your sorry to the lady in the truck." I look up and guess who? Yes Ms. Road Rage.
Here is where I went wrong...I stepted up to him(I knew he would back down because of the way he acted when I stepted out onto the pourch) Kinda snarling, I said "Dude, thats not going to happen." "Now get your azz off the properity or I'm gonna thump it." "And Take that Twit with you." As I was saying this I fliped off the women in the truck. Now little did this guy know but my right hand was on my back pocket which contained my 5 shot .38 Bodyguard. The guy snuck back to his truck and drove off.
Bad move on my part, if he had assaulted me, I might have had to shoot him.
He now knew where I lived.
What I should have done.......Taken my cell phone out, called 911 and in front of this POS reported that there was a man at my door threating my life.
Then describe the person, his truck, and lic number.
Remember you know the limits, use whats available to you. Someone cutting you off isn't worth a confrontation. Someone comming to your door might be worth a confrontation. Just use your common sense.
 
Thanks for the advice, fellas. You're all pretty much saying what I was thinking, but I wanted to hear it from someone else.

Just to really clarify this, so nobody gets the wrong idea, I had and have absolutely no intention of drawing a weapon in any situation where I didn't need to use lethal force. That's not what this thread is about.

What it's about is confronting people in a nonviolent manner, and how to do that while carrying concealed.


To be perfectly frank, I might be asking the wrong group of people -- or rather, I might be wrong for this group, as I'm probably quite a bit younger than you all, and I have to deal with people who think a shoving match is a natural conclusion to an argument. I believe it's commonly referred to as "social fighting", and up until now it's just been something that happens.


Guess I have to give it up now, but it feels strange.


Anyway...now I need to decide between a PT-111 and a P11....
 
What is right is right regardless of the age(s) of the people invloved in a situation. The best way to insure you do not become involved in a "social fight" is to do everything in your power to be sure you are not in a situation where this is an option. I am 33 years old. I'm not a spring chicken, but I am far from old. The best way to be sure you survive a fight is to not be involved in one if you can help it. That applies regardless of age.

You would be served well by either the PT-111 or the P-11. I have owned both in the past and each has performed well. I prefer the PT-111.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top