people must be proud of their US service arms

tahunua001:
Back on Aug 31st I walked into the Anniston store (my first CMP visit).

From behind the counter, where several Garands had owners' tags and awaited shipment, three staff told me with one voice: "We are 5,000 M-1s behind due to ammo orders".
Some sort of cost increase (staff overhead?) caused the CMP to raise the price on M2 Ball from .50 to .60/rd. last December.
Maybe people simply buying/"flipping" CMP ammo is also a factor.
 
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Interesting Reading.

http://www.hwsportsman.net/CMP-Garand.html

I bought a Greek Rack Grade at $295 plus shipping. The stock was pretty rough but tight fitting. The MW, TE made the barrel a great shooter, 1-2 on both ends. The dents and axel grease on the stock came out/off with only my time involved.
So now the CMP sells the lowest grade as Field Grade or Service Grade. Yes that is less than the Gun Show vendors, but one can hand pick at the store/show and haggle.
Way back then the only CMP store was in Ohio, quite a trip from my house the hand pick a rifle. I went with the lower priced RG hoping to get a shooter that would need rebarreling after a few hundred round shot by your humble narrator.
I'd not part with those that I own for less than $1000 now. Please remember that a little over six million M1s were made between 1937 and 1957. How many are left after Captain Crunch, Lend Lease for the Cold War and lost in one D-Day or another. Not to mention those torch cut as worn beyond repair by the armorers after the war.
Limited supply high demand and the values reflect that.
 
tahunua001:
Back on Aug 31st I walked into the Anniston store (my first CMP visit).

Three staff told me with one voice: "We are 5,000 M-1s behind due to ammo orders".
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ignition what does that really have to do with anything? they are still taking orders and selling M1s for $650 and considering that they were 20,000 rifles behind schedule last january, 5000 sounds like they were catching up pretty well. the turn around on M1 garands is still averaging 4-6 weeks from everything I've read.
 
I think the fact remains that I would feel ashamed asking 1600 bucks for my M1. It's nice, shoots well, and looks great. But I don;t feel its worth 1600 dollars. I wouldn't pay that to buy it, and I didn't. I paid 595, my time and effort invested into it equal exactly zero dollars in "value" although I put many hours into it.
 
Oh, I wish I was back in 1963, when gas cost $.20 and a pound of hamburger was $.25, a loaf of bread was $.05, and a brand new car cost $2,000. Of course, I'd want to keep my inflated salary, not go back to 1963 incomes (my dad was an engineer, and in 1963 he made a comfortable $9,000/yr). And yes, I remember the barrels of war rifles, and I also remember most WW2 and Korean War vets trying to forget all about the rifles and how they were used. Maybe what we need is a war.
 
and I also remember most WW2 and Korean War vets trying to forget all about the rifles and how they were used.
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You hit a nail on its head, scorch. My dad fought in France in 44-45, and I never understood his reticence about talking of his experiences until I went to Southeast Asia a little over 20 years later.
 
I realize that there's appreciation and american dollar value coming in to play on all this, but it's still a little silly the prices being asked. all of my prices are taken from gun shows, gunbroker and arms list. I spent an entire gunshow weekend trying to get rid of an MAS36 and mosin nagant only to trade them for a reparked enfield and then when had the only person at the show with a M1917 laugh in my face when I offered $500 on account of a shot out bore.
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Hmmm, seems to me if you want a good one, pay the price and if you don't want to pay the price don't buy one. Complaining is not going to get you a lower cost one.
 
I don't think the issue is so two dimensional

On one hand we have folks that feel CMP prices are "going rate"
On the other we have folks that think the requirement for a 1000 dollar US milsurp is "shoots and is old"

Personally, I feel the truth is in the middle.
 
The reality is that these items were made at a certain point along our "timeline." We can only travel one direction in time, and these things are left behind. Time and attrition make these things get less and less common, while our population gets more and more numerous.

Let's face it: These things are getting to be 70++ years old. At one time you could buy like new surplus Civil War muskets for probably around a dollar. You can't do that now. A thousand dollar Garand now probably will become a two-thousand dollar Garand in the next 10-20 years. Also, bear in mind that our ever more repressive government will not allow us free access to many weapons that were used by our armed forces after the Garand, M-1 carbine, etc.

Bottom line, dwindling supply and increasing demand.
 
CMP is not affected by govt blocking of imported firearms. "If" more Garands, Carbines, 1903's are returned to the Army from foriegn countries that we loaned them to they will be then turned over to CMP.
CMP is still the best deal around, well under the $1000 mark
 
CMP is not affected by govt blocking of imported firearms. "If" more Garands, Carbines, 1903's are returned to the Army from foriegn countries that we loaned them to they will be then turned over to CMP.
CMP is still the best deal around, well under the $1000 mark
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True enough, but I was thinking more along the lines that none of us will ever see "CMP" M-14s, M-16s, etc. (Barring a major revision of existing laws.)
 
I have to agree with the supply and demand paradigm that others have stated. Ar prices went sky high but people came out of the woodwork to make money on that. Now AR's are a dime a dozen and super cheap. Why? They aren't making another 1943 Smith Corona 1903A3 and people pay it. Sarco will run some good deals on O3A3's. Maybe look there.
 
And if you think prices are high now, wait a few years, the price will just keep climbing. I will never, ever sell any of my US military guns again. I did that once to finance a house and while I can't say that it wasn't worth it, I sure haven't been able to replace what I sold for anywhere near the money I got for them.
 
Simply put its the supply and demand.

A lot of interesting and a diminishing supply. People still modify these guns and ruing the value through ignorance if not worse, store them badly etc.

WWI anniversary is coming up and that is going to peak demand again.

Unlike the ARs the price (sand a complete economic meltdown) is not going to fall again. It will go up slowly or jump and hold and then up etc but not going down.

Find a good one if you want it now, its going to get more costly each month that goes by.
 
I feel its much too simplistic to simply assign supply and demand and chalk it up to that basic of economics.

I've seen this happen with objects much, much more expensive than even the Batte M1A1, let alone even a 'correct' M1 rifle or M1C for example.

Rarity is absolutely a factor, and yes, very true: they ain't making them any more. But remember about rarity- the junkyard is full of rare old cars. Rarity is a mitigatory aspect only. In and of itself it means little.

The market is also artificially elevated by people that will pay the outlandish prices that are out of line, and by some of the knowledgeable collectors themselves. The people who are less informed that paid 15 or 20% too much now have a rifle that is "worth" what they paid. In this hobby an educated consumer is not the best buyer when that type of scenario reaches a certain level- which I believe it has- that dictates that this new "error price" for want of a better term is now the 'standard price'. This makes the rifle they thought they were buying even more expensive, which brings me to collectors that do know. When they see say a "correct" M1 rifle going for 1500 bucks and they can spot inaccuracies on it, they can point those out mentally. Now they have ammunition for a higher value for their actually correct weapons- regardless if they sell them or not - buy pointing out the flaws and how their own rifle doesn't suffer from them. Thus their rifle is worth that 'baseline' plus a premium. Now a new higher price can be quoted. And if that rifle is say a '100%' correct rifle, well my 75% correct one is "worth" 75% of that right? There's also a parallel in pro sports, with salaries.

Anyway, this happened with collector American cars from the '60s and '70s. The bubble burst but rebounded well and now it's not easy to participate in that hobby. The average guy can't do it any more. So while I agree, yes, buy these rifles now, they will not get cheaper, I have a very clear grasp of "worth" "price" and "value" and I see the market being churned upward artificially by people who both buy and sell.
 
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But remember about rarity- the junkyard is full of rare old cars.
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Apples and oranges. "Rare old cars" in junkyards are usually damaged beyond repair or rusted hulks. Either way, unsalvageable.

We are talking about a finite and dwindling supply of old guns and an increasing interested population, which (wait for it) results in an increased demand.

Take look at machine guns; A dwindling finite supply and an increasing demand; That's why a NIB Maremont M60 that I could have bought in the 80s for around $1500.00 is now $45,000.00.

Now, increasing population or not, if there were no real interest in old guns, there would be no demand, and, therefore, no increase in prices not accountable as a result of normal inflation.
 
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Apples and oranges. "Rare old cars" in junkyards are usually damaged beyond repair or rusted hulks. Either way, unsalvageable.
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:) Hardly apples and oranges. I also mentioned a lot of other things besides that, by the way, such as how the collectors themselves influence rising price. Two points:

1) You have taken my statement well out of context. Please take my comment about rare cars in the context I provided regarding the quality of 'rarity', instead of removing the key aspect, and I quote myself here:
But remember about rarity-the junkyard is full of rare old cars. Rarity is a mitigatory aspect only. In and of itself it means little.
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I clearly defined my comment as being only in regard to the single quality of rarity. I could take a WIN 13 M1 rifle, saw it in half, and it's still rare, alright. However, in your example of increasing interest, the classic car market has hardly dwindled.

2) In any case, rare cars in junk yards are not usually "un-salvageable" so long as the VIN is still attached to the shell. Rare cars are worth much more than for example the well documented Batte M1A1 or your run of the mill class III MG...even if I double the price of the M2 BMGs I see online- we are talking about well over 100,000 dollar cars. Respectfully I have some experience in the auto restoration hobby, and I feel I have a valid opinion on the subject.
 
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Ah yes and there is the difference; a restored automobile versus an all original automobile of the same make model and year. Which would be worth more?

An all original M1 is an extreme rarity for several reasons. An arsenal repair rebuild is what most of the M1s from the CMP are. Take a 'BlueSky' import and you'll not get near the money and arsenal rebuild. To make matters worse many of the scrapped as un-repairable or worn receivers were cut to destroy them. Bought as scrap and welded back together. Those I'd never buy, but can everyone tell a 'REWELD'?

I bought an all original Sprinfield, 1955 vintage M1 from the CMP a few years back for $900 plus shipping. From what I see at the CMP there are none currently available.

http://www.scott-duff.com/

Peruse this for some rare M1 rifles.
 
This thread was about historical firearms, not rare automobiles.

Firearms are associated with various world-wide earth shattering events; "Rare" automobiles are not, unless you are talking about Hitler's Mercedes or Ferdinand and Sophie's Gräf & Stift from Sarajevo.

I stand by my original statement that there is an increasing demand for U.S. service arms (as well as those of other nations) and a dwindling supply due to these factors: Increased interest in the involvement of these arms in our life-changing military conflicts and an ever-increasing population. (Which has doubled in the U.S. in my lifetime.)

Simple logic tells us that increased interest=increased demand. And increased demand+decreasing supply=increased prices.
 
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