Pennies and nickels cost more than they're worth!

Forget the pennies, I'm more concered about the quarters. Why did we spend all sorts of money on engravers to make a quarter for each state and then the corresponding plates and presses when this was a totally unnecessary expense. Besides, most of them look ridiculous.
 
Don't get rid of the penny

It will just further delvaue our money if we do. People say, "just round everything off to the nearest .05, well fine. Do that. And real quick you will find that the nickel is the new penny, so everything will cost you .01 to .04 cents more.

Dollar coins have been tried several times before, and are not with us as standard items yet. Half dollars are, but are very seldom used. You can get them, you can get dollar coins, but not in everyday change. Anybody out there remember the $2 bill?

Money is an idea backed by confidence. Paper money especially. Coins have some value, when made of metal, more when made of precious metals, but beyond that.....

Coins can be made of whatever the govt wants. 35 years ago I visited Austria (back when a Glock was a clock), and the Austrian unit of currency was a Schilling. The exchange rate was 20 Schilling to 1 US dollar. Schillings were further divided into 100 Grosschen. And one would get 1 and 2 Grosschen coins in change. They were small stamped aluminium discs. I understand that at one time they had been made of wood.

If the Govt says it is worth X then it is worth X, until the govt makes an "adjustment". We sell our money around the world today, making it worth what ever the market will bring, and right now, the market sucks. The world doesn't have confidence in us, or our money right now, and that isn't likely to change much until we face up to some facts and make some hard decisions on how to deal with them. If we make the "right" choices, things will get better. If we don't......
 
Why did we spend all sorts of money on engravers to make a quarter for each state and then the corresponding plates and presses when this was a totally unnecessary expense.
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Actually, it's a net profit to the government - the US Mint produces a quarter for about 5.7 cents, and sells it to the Federal Reserve System for 25 cents. If you think oil company profits are high, check that out.
 
Actually, it's a net profit to the government - the US Mint produces a quarter for about 5.7 cents, and sells it to the Federal Reserve System for 25 cents. If you think oil company profits are high, check that out.
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Making quarters in general may be a profit, however the changing of designs still cost more money that would have otherwise been spent.
 
obviously not a coil collector

are you STAGE 2. For if you were you would understand a few more things than a simple statement about the cost. There is an income factor of how much revenue is generated by the mint as it sells a variety of coins. Were there to have been one coin issued rather than the variety they now produce collector would purchase a minimal number in comparison to the quantity they now purchase. Each type of coin sold by the mint is sold for a premium. Typically I pay one and a half times face value for coins from the mint. Some times the premium is as high a twice the face value. Production cost for a quarter for example is around 8 cents. The quarters are sold to collectors for around 40 cents. It sure seems to me the mint is turning an operating cost for the government into a profit center.

That said I do believe the penny has outlived is functionality. Unfortionatly when the proposal to stop producing the penny was last tried the response was an overwhelming objection. Most of the objections were based on the claim that it would raise prices and business would cheat the public on every sale. An argument that is completly impossible when you apply a bit of basic math to a series of prices.
 
Well considering the US mint operates every working day. and on each day the operate the produce more currency. It is/was only amtter a time before the value of currency drops. There's a fancy word for this. It's called inflation. Given that the only thing that gives the dollar (or any us currency) value is the faith we have in it. and not gold or silver backing. It's only a matter of time before it costs more to make then it is worth. But with that said how much of these trivial stories are floating around as an attempt to distract us all from the fact that the ice is cracking and were all about to go for a swim. BTW on road diesel was $4.50/gallon here today. That means next time you buy anything from a local store the prices are going up. A friend of mine was at an auction today and horses broke to ride were bringing $50-$100. A few years ago there were bringing upwards of $1,000 If that doesn't sum up the times we live in I'm not sure what does.
 
are you STAGE 2.
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Actually I am. A modest one, but still with several valuable pieces.

For if you were you would understand a few more things than a simple statement about the cost. There is an income factor of how much revenue is generated by the mint as it sells a variety of coins. Were there to have been one coin issued rather than the variety they now produce collector would purchase a minimal number in comparison to the quantity they now purchase.
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I completely understand this, however I think its irrelevant. In case you haven't noticed, the US government is in massive debt. As such, any profits they make over their expenses should go to paying this down rather than catering to the fancies of the collectors.


Each type of coin sold by the mint is sold for a premium. Typically I pay one and a half times face value for coins from the mint. Some times the premium is as high a twice the face value. Production cost for a quarter for example is around 8 cents. The quarters are sold to collectors for around 40 cents. It sure seems to me the mint is turning an operating cost for the government into a profit center.
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Not really. Because the mint is selling quarters to collectors 32 cents over cost doesn't mean they are making a profit. You have to factor in the costs of engravers, new presses and everything else involved in producing a new coin, and then multiply that by 50. with all this I don't think that they are making a profit, at least not yet.

Thats why it would have been better to stick with the old coins. collectors collect each new year anyways, no extra money need to be spent and the process goes faster because there aren't 50 variations, only one.
 
Not really. Because the mint is selling quarters to collectors 32 cents over cost doesn't mean they are making a profit. You have to factor in the costs of engravers, new presses and everything else involved in producing a new coin, and then multiply that by 50. with all this I don't think that they are making a profit, at least not yet.
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Perhaps you're unaware of the scale of the operation - suppose you pay an engraver $20,000 for his work on a new design, or even a whole team of engravers $1 million for a month of round-the-clock work, and make $100 million in seniorage from that design. How does that add up to a loss?

Likewise, any coin that is hoarded by collectors and not put into circulation does not continue to affect the economy - a free ride, so to speak.

Regardless of your speculation, the fact is that the 50-State Quarters is estimated by the Treasury to have generated $5 billion (with a 'b') in seniorage so far since its start in 1999.

Thats why it would have been better to stick with the old coins. collectors collect each new year anyways...
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Now, instead of collecting one each of Denver and Philadelphia, and maybe San Francisco mint marks for each new year, they collect Denver, Philadelphia, and maybe San Francisco for five different quarters each year. Five times the volume into the collectors' market, which is pure seniorage.
 
Nothing the gov. does, at any level, is cost effective. If the gov. took over auto making we would all be driving Yugos that cost us $50,000 each. Except the pollyticicans themselves of course, they would ride Mercedes, BMWs, etc., and put the fuel/maintenance on their gov. credit cards.
 
Perhaps you're unaware of the scale of the operation - suppose you pay an engraver $20,000 for his work on a new design, or even a whole team of engravers $1 million for a month of round-the-clock work, and make $100 million in seniorage from that design. How does that add up to a loss?
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Because I'm still not convinced that the total cost of expenditures on this is putting the government in the black.

However if it is, the revenues aren't being put to good use, i.e. paying down the debt.
 
Stage 2
However if it is, the revenues aren't being put to good use, i.e. paying down the debt.
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If paying down the debt is really that important to you, then maybe you might consider that we are spending billions of dollars every month in Iraq. Maybe if we spend that money to pay down the debt instead of pouring it into a hole in the desert, we can begin to make some progress on our national debt once again.
 
However if it is, the revenues aren't being put to good use, i.e. paying down the debt.
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What use are they being put to, since you seem to know where they are not being spent? I guess that's a hypothetical question as you are not even certain as to whether there is a net profit or loss and are just speculating.
 
What use are they being put to, since you seem to know where they are not being spent? I guess that's a hypothetical question as you are not even certain as to whether there is a net profit or loss and are just speculating.
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It is a hypothetical as I haven't seen anything to suggest that a profit has been made by making these new quarters.
 
It is a hypothetical as I haven't seen anything to suggest that a profit has been made by making these new quarters.
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I absolutely understand that, which is why statements you made like:
Making quarters in general may be a profit, however the changing of designs still cost more money that would have otherwise been spent.
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are just out of touch.

I just don't understand why you are speculating as to whether new designs are good or bad without any basis of fact.

You may very well be correct, I just think there should be something to back it up.
 
I just don't understand why you are speculating as to whether new designs are good or bad without any basis of fact.
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The statement still holds true. If making quarters in general generates a profit, then lets leave that alone and focus our legislative time and money elswhere. With everything going on, satisfying the desires of collectors is so far down on the list that I can't put it into perspective.
 
It is a hypothetical as I haven't seen anything to suggest that a profit has been made by making these new quarters.
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I guess you missed where I posted that the US Treasury estimated that the program has garnered $5 billion in seniorage profits so far?

According to the 2006 Annual Report, the Mint's Selling, General, & Administrative expenses were $177.5 million. Total revenue from all sources was $2.3 billion dollars, including $682.4 million in seniorage from selling US coins at face value.

For the Quarter alone in 2006, their COGS, SG&A, and other expenses were $272.7 million on revenue of $751.1 million, for a net profit of $478.4 million in that one year. (See page 18.)

The report also underscores why the rest of Congress should tell Teddy Kennedy that his corporate welfare to Crane & Co. is finished, and eliminate the $1 bill in favor of the dollar coin. In 2006 the dollar coin cost $9.7 million to produce but brought in $60.3 million in seniorage revenue, more than the entire 2006 sales profit of the Bureau of Engraving and Printing, at $55.7 million in 2006.
 
The statement still holds true.
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Not if it generates a profit which you admit you have no data regarding. I just don't understand why you stick to your guns even with no information.

But MVPEL seems to have information. Please read it. Discussions like this are much better when based on facts rather than conjecture.
 
The only thing the change to the quarters requires is a master engraving.

Dies are then made from the engraving as needed for wear and tear.

The same stamping machines turn out all the coins with just a die change.
Even the roll lettering on the dollar coin can be done by the same machinery used to edge mark the coins with a die change.
 
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