penetration or expansion?

T

troy_mclure

New member
this is mainly in reference to low energy cartridges, like .380acp and below.

the premise is that many small caliber cartridges lack the energy to do both successfully.

what do you prefer for these cartridges, expansion or penetration?
 
penetration

I want the round to be under the far side skin.
If the ammo is going to shot through most of the time I then want it to expand.
 
Another vote for penetration.

Though in .380, I understand that the 95 grain Corbon (could be wrong) will both expand and penetrate sufficiently. There could be others as well.

For me, if I were depending on anything at or under .32 ACP, I'd stick to quality FMJs. In .380, I'd probably carry the Corbon JHPs, and FMJs on very cold days, but YMMV.
 
Long story I'll try to keep short. A Cousin (ex-LEO) was driving trucks and they were talking back and forth about reports that some guy in a car was shooting at the trucks, driving crazy, messing with them (getting in front of them and slowing way down) and trying to run people off the road.

Well, they decided to get this guy stopped after he did it to a couple of more trucks. So, 2 trucks coming in both lanes from one direction, and two trucks in the 2 lanes coming from the other direction.... and have him pinned in.

I was told there was a shooting that involved my cousin. I turned on the News and there it was. I took it my cousin was shot, and they are showing a guy being loaded into an ambulance, but nope..... not him. Then they were suddenly interviewing my cousin. So who's in the ambulance ?

The trucks got the guy stopped and they got out and approached his vehicle, my cousin in the lead. The guy came out of the car with a .38 revolver in his hand ..... and shot my cousin in the stomach. Then my cousin beat the guy up for shooting him, well.... to the point that the guy needed an ambulance ride to the hospital where after surgery, etc. he stayed a few weeks before going to jail.

My cousin was shot. The .38 spl hit his cowboy belt buckle, went thru it and stopped. When he undid the belt, the bullet fell out. The bullet was between the buckle and the leather of the belt. The bullet was very very flatened out with good expansion, but no penetration. Saw both.

Point is.... at least enough "penetration".
 
If you end up in a situation where you need to "break down" an attacker then you MUST have penetration.

So if you can't get sufficient penetration with expanding ammunition then FMJ probably gives you a better chance of actually disabling the attacker.

On the other hand, most "stops" from handgun shootings seem to be psychological in nature ("Oh, I've been shot--that really hurts--I could die--as of this instant NOT getting shot again AND getting rapid medical attention is MUCH more important to me than killing this fine upstanding citizen".) and expansion probably plays better to the perception of the attacker that he's been shot.

So if you end up in a more typical self-defense situation then expansion may provide a better, more urgent, cue to the attacker that he's been shot which could result in a stop (or a quicker stop).

Conventional wisdom says plan for the worst possible scenario and that favors FMJ. Others may feel that it's wiser to plan for the most common scenario.

I've carried both and feel fortunate that I've had to use neither.
 
Only in calibers where expanding ammo won't penetrate to the FBI recommended minimum depth of 12" or in guns that won't function reliably with expanding rounds. In general expanding ammo is preferred for self-defense.
 
I carry Corbon DPX in my 380's and Corbon HP in my 32's Since we will likely be in a close fight measured in feet not yards and majority of shooting will be pretty much face to face I believe the 10" or their about will be good enough . The vital parts are not that deep in the chest I won't be shooting thru windshields or store plate glass with a KelTec DPX in tests hasn't been bothered by clothing
Police have different needs in ammo choice and of course they carry a bigger caliber. But till the FBI Miami shoot out the Feds believed 10 was good After that shoot out they were looking for a escape goat to cover their bad tactics and all of a sudden needed a 10mm and 12 + inches Later reduced to a 40S&W so people could qualify
We all must choice and I will choose HP except in 25 auto their I want ball
 
If you end up in a situation where you need to "break down" an attacker then you MUST have penetration.

So if you can't get sufficient penetration with expanding ammunition then FMJ probably gives you a better chance of actually disabling the attacker.

On the other hand, most "stops" from handgun shootings seem to be psychological in nature ("Oh, I've been shot--that really hurts--I could die--as of this instant NOT getting shot again AND getting rapid medical attention is MUCH more important to me than killing this fine upstanding citizen".) and expansion probably plays better to the perception of the attacker that he's been shot.

So if you end up in a more typical self-defense situation then expansion may provide a better, more urgent, cue to the attacker that he's been shot which could result in a stop (or a quicker stop).

Conventional wisdom says plan for the worst possible scenario and that favors FMJ. Others may feel that it's wiser to plan for the most common scenario.

I've carried both and feel fortunate that I've had to use neither.
Click to expand...

John that is very well stated.

I'll just add this. If you have two bullets that will penetrate sufficently but one expands more I'll take the extra expansion as well. This might explain the why Federal HST's and Winchester Ranger T's are so popular.
 
FMJ for me in a .45, penetration is key. A semi jackted soft point will expand and give you penetration too.

Saw lock and load? Ermy shoots gell with a .45acp FMJ. Penetrated deep and had a lot of shock to boot. I just love that round and feel very confidant it will do the job if the aim is on.
 
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