Penetration- 9 vs .45
- Thread starter Double M
- Start date
If you really think that a .45 will knock someone down, and even backwards, then you obviously have no knowledge whatsoever about handguns. Go read some more. We all have to start somewhere, but please don't think that bullest behave in reality like they do in Hollywood. If a bullet could knock you down, then the person firing it would also be knocked down. Basic physics. No handgun bullet in existence has the power to knock someone over.
Blackhawk,
I must echo brasso's point and add that you've obviously never seen the tapes that the owner of Second Chance bullet proof vests made, wherein he shot himself in the chest with a .44 magnum... while wearing one of his own vests. The funny thing is... he didn't fall over, move backwards or collapse... (though he did grimace a bit) even though all the bullet's energy was expended.
It just don't happen that way 'cept in the movies.
FWIW
I must echo brasso's point and add that you've obviously never seen the tapes that the owner of Second Chance bullet proof vests made, wherein he shot himself in the chest with a .44 magnum... while wearing one of his own vests. The funny thing is... he didn't fall over, move backwards or collapse... (though he did grimace a bit) even though all the bullet's energy was expended.
It just don't happen that way 'cept in the movies.
FWIW
9x 19,
If he hadn't been wearing the vest, his CV system would have been destroyed by the COM wound resulting in a rapid loss of blood pressure followed by fainting due to lack of blood to the brain. That's the "collapse" meant by "knock them down."
If consciousness could be maintained, a reflexive resistance could counter the backwards acceleration imparted by the bullet, and that's more likely by a gut or side shot attacker since major arteries are less likely to be involved. Of course, a COM shot attacker who's charging wouldn't move backwards, he'd just slow down as he collapsed....
If he hadn't been wearing the vest, his CV system would have been destroyed by the COM wound resulting in a rapid loss of blood pressure followed by fainting due to lack of blood to the brain. That's the "collapse" meant by "knock them down."
If consciousness could be maintained, a reflexive resistance could counter the backwards acceleration imparted by the bullet, and that's more likely by a gut or side shot attacker since major arteries are less likely to be involved. Of course, a COM shot attacker who's charging wouldn't move backwards, he'd just slow down as he collapsed....
WESHOOT2,
A fit standing person who loses consciousness will tend to fall forward just because the natural human center of gravity is forward of the center of the ankles. Sadly, the average American is also overweight, which moves the natural body center of gravity further forward.
They're not usually soldiers wearing backpacks when shot though, are they?
A fit standing person who loses consciousness will tend to fall forward just because the natural human center of gravity is forward of the center of the ankles. Sadly, the average American is also overweight, which moves the natural body center of gravity further forward.
Oddly enough, I don't think this is the whole story. An elephant will almost invariably fall toward the side it is shot FROM. In otherwords TOWARD the shooter. That is regardless of the orientation of the elephant.
I don't know if it's true with other game.
However, the idea that a bullet will knock a person backwards is not at all grounded in fact.
I've heard at least one documented instance in which a person was shot 11 times COM by two policemen firing .44 Mag equivalent loads in just a few seconds. He fell forward.
Also, as regards the shooter being knocked backward, what about a person firing a .458 Win mag or one of the other big elephant cartridges? They are not knocked over. In fact, it usually takes something with ballistics around a .50 BMG in a standard sized rifle before a shooter will have difficulty maintaining his footing.
Bullets penetrate and can do tremendous damage. They may even drop game (or humans) on the spot, instantly, but they do NOT knock people (or decent sized game) down or backwards.
JohnKSa,
The original topic of this post was penetration of two different bullets. It's now evolved to what happens to a person shot COM with a .45 with tendrils to a shooter being knocked backwards.
Brasso started another thread with a poll about that has some analysis in it in addition to opinions that may or may not have valid foundations.
The salient thing in your post is the BG being shot multiple times with .44 Mag equivalents. If all the shots don't hit at exactly the same time, the number of shots is nearly irrelevant. In the case of a .45, the slug delivers an impulse of around 90# -- like getting hit with a baseball moving at about 60 mph. The second and subsequent slugs delivered COM (there's only one COM) will just go through the tunnel made by the first, and even if they hit near COM but not in a previous wound, their energy delivery is still not cumulative because it's not "all at once."
Finally, being "knocked down" is a question of whether a person so shot remains standing or not. It's gravity that does that job, not the bullet.
The original topic of this post was penetration of two different bullets. It's now evolved to what happens to a person shot COM with a .45 with tendrils to a shooter being knocked backwards.
Brasso started another thread with a poll about that has some analysis in it in addition to opinions that may or may not have valid foundations.
The salient thing in your post is the BG being shot multiple times with .44 Mag equivalents. If all the shots don't hit at exactly the same time, the number of shots is nearly irrelevant. In the case of a .45, the slug delivers an impulse of around 90# -- like getting hit with a baseball moving at about 60 mph. The second and subsequent slugs delivered COM (there's only one COM) will just go through the tunnel made by the first, and even if they hit near COM but not in a previous wound, their energy delivery is still not cumulative because it's not "all at once."
Finally, being "knocked down" is a question of whether a person so shot remains standing or not. It's gravity that does that job, not the bullet.
The other thread I referred to above is http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90169&perpage=20&pagenumber=2
CWL,
NVA on the move wore backpacks. I don't have any idea about the Huks except that I'd be surprised if they did.
Rifle fire in combat is always with FMJ due to the Geneva Convention and .30 caliber or less. The larger diameter .45 FMJ isn't as likely to just go through.
About the only way somebody's going to be moved in the direction of the round is if they don't have any opposite momentum.
NVA on the move wore backpacks. I don't have any idea about the Huks except that I'd be surprised if they did.
Rifle fire in combat is always with FMJ due to the Geneva Convention and .30 caliber or less. The larger diameter .45 FMJ isn't as likely to just go through.
About the only way somebody's going to be moved in the direction of the round is if they don't have any opposite momentum.
mike killian
New member
9 vs .45
It seem to me that the question might be.."which would you LEAST like to be shot with in a self defense situation?"
I think my answer would be the .45
It seem to me that the question might be.."which would you LEAST like to be shot with in a self defense situation?"
I think my answer would be the .45
9mm vs. .45 ACP
I think it's question of situation,
police situation or military situation?
for military war situation... Penetration, penetration, penetration...
since your enemy is behind of cover and concealment, and you don't care about stray bullet hitting something other than your intended target, hey, that's good thing,
for police situation ... we all know less penetration and so called stopping power, since most likely target is unarmed civillian and/or criminal less than 10 yrds away, and have to prepared being sued also,
I think it's question of situation,
police situation or military situation?
for military war situation... Penetration, penetration, penetration...
since your enemy is behind of cover and concealment, and you don't care about stray bullet hitting something other than your intended target, hey, that's good thing,
for police situation ... we all know less penetration and so called stopping power, since most likely target is unarmed civillian and/or criminal less than 10 yrds away, and have to prepared being sued also,