Penetration~357 sig vs. 45 acp

[SSGN_Doc]

Another factor is bullet construction:

Jacket material
Jacket thickness
Bonded or unbonded
Jacket design (tapered vs. reverse tapered.)

A 9mm bullet with a thin non bonded jacket may penetrate ok at 9mm velocities that do not cause the jacket to fail or separate. However, if you push that same bullet a little faster the bullet may come apart in less distance, leaving smaller fragments which do not penetrate as far. Even bonded bullets may penetrate less in ordnance gelletin or actual tissue just because the bullet expands more rapidly and increases its drag coefficient earlier. Since most .357 Sig loads just use existing 9mm bullets that were designed to work in a velocity range that is up to 20% lower, there can be higher jacket failure rates, and higher expansion rates than when operating in the designed velocity envelope. If manufacturers built projectiles specifically for .357 Sig, it could be a bigger penetrator, at least with HP ammo.
Some folks may even prefer having less penetration, and more violent expansion that the 9mm bullets offer.

Just food for thought.

 

[riflemen]

I see and hear this conversation a lot and it never gets anywhere constructive, lol...

I see some say that 9mm is equal to 357sig? I see it differently..

9mm+P 124gr XTP jhp is 1225/413ft lbs

http://www.underwoodammo.com/9mmlugerp124grainXTPjackethollowpointboxof20.aspx

357 sig 124gr XTP jhp is 1407/604ft lbs

http://www.underwoodammo.com/357sig124grainxtpjacketedhollowpointboxof20.aspx

Now that is a plus P 9mm, I used Kevin Underwoods ammo because he is one of the guys that has done the research and loads rounds to their capability {safely and reliably}, mixing manufacturers and bullet types won't show you much , but 124gr xtp vs 124gr xtp gives you a real idea of what each round is capable of...

NOW, if you are looking for a target and defense gun, 357 may get expensive to shoot and 9mm could be a better way to go, BUT if you are looking for a defense weapon, I think the 357 shoots better, is more accurate, feels like its softer shooting, and has more power.... That is one of my favorite defense calibers, I also like the 400 corbon when properly loaded {kevin loads this better than Corbon themselves believe it or not} 1500fps 675 ft lbs!!! I chrono'd these and came up with 1570 fps out of my 1911 {ported barrel}!!!

http://www.underwoodammo.com/400cor-bon135grainjackethollowpointboxof50.aspx

If you are really worried about penetration and want to be able to blow through doors windshields, ect then grab a glock 21, a lone wolf 40 super barrel kit, and a box of these http://www.underwoodammo.com/40Super220grainHardCastFlatNosetboxof50.aspx that will get you almost 900 ft lbs I am sure she will penetrate just fine...

a friend of mine {I know him from the range} has that setup, and I can tell you it shoots strong, BUT thats the issue, lol, its got SOME BANG, and follow up shots are not fun, same goes for some 10mm I have shot, you have to factor in much more than power, otherwise we would all carry 454 casull or 460 Sw {2100fbs 2000ft lbs...}

 

[saleen322]

Sectional density is usually the best predictor of penetration with the same bullet construction at similar velocity.

The 357 Sig with a 124 grain bullet would have a SD of about 0.141
The 45 Auto with a 230 would have a SD of 0.161

The Sig will be going faster but the HP bullet discussed would likely expand causing the SD to drop drastically. A 45 Auto with a 230 FMJ would hold a decided edge in SD as it is much less likely to expand but it has a lower velocity which would work against it but I don't know if it would be enough to keep it from beating the Sig. However make the 45 a HP as well and it would change the results.

FWIW, a 9mm with a 147 FMJ (0.167 SD) would likely beat both if you are only looking at penetration. YMMV

 

[P71pilot]

The facts are, people, that velocity will win for hard targets such as metal etc... But the slow and heavy projectiles are better at penetrating soft targets. I bet you a +p standard weight .45 would out penetrate a +p standard weight 9mm parabellum in meat/tissue. A 7.62x25 round will penetrate hard obstacle better than either but I bet it wouldn't fare as well if shot into a big hunk of meat

 

[cougar gt-e]

P71pilot, save your money and don't do that bet. Toks were known to pass through 2 soldiers in ww2.



From thehighroad

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-243642.html

December 27, 2006, 06:54 PM
Cartridge: 85gr Sellier and Bellot FMJ

Firearm: CZ-52 with 4.6" barrel length

Block calibration: 593 ft/sec and 10.3cm penetration

Single shot was fired to the center of the block from a distance of 6 feet. Bullet impacted the block at 1510 ft/sec, penetrated 16.0" of ballistic gelatin, 10" of polyester bullet arresting box (roughly equivalent to 12" of ballistic gelatin), and 1.5" of loose-packed 'play sand'.

Bullet penetrated to 7.0" in the gelatin, when it began to tumble. Bullet apparently 'righted itself', traveling base forward from 14.5" onwards. Interestingly, the bullet was recovered from the playsand, in a sideways attitude - indicating that it had once again started to tumble sometime after exit from the ballistic gelatin. Bullet was recovered with no deformation present.

I would like to thank JohnKSa for lending me the gun and providing the ammunition that was utilized in the test. If you found this information helpful, please let him know. It was quite a bear for both of us to get the shipping and such organized at this time of the year.

Thank you,

JE223
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=49999&stc=1&d=1167259902
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=50000&stc=1&d=1167259902