Peaceful Armed March on Washington

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"We will attempt to get approvals and permits."

Why do you think you need a permit to go somewhere and be someplace. We don't do the "permit thing" here in Arizona. Ask for a permit and they can tell you where to go, and when to leave.

"Who is the leader?"

You don't need a leader. A leaderless ambling mob scares them because they can't hold some figure-head "responsible."

If you play by their rules, you will lose.


Rick

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"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American." Tench Coxe 2/20/1788
 
Rick- we don't expect to get approvals but it is important to our story and our legal cases that we tried to do so.
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Of course if we receive approvals we will still be civilly disobedient to those laws in conflict with the second amendment.
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I'm not sure we need specific leaders, why the net -group cannot continue to guide this effort as it has so far. When we march we will need one, two or three people who can act EXCLUSIVELY as our spokespeople with the media. Careful choice of these people can make or break the impression we make on the public via the media coverage.
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If we can bring 5000 + people to the steps of the Supreme Court I can guarantee a good media turnout! If we can't marshall the people count we should not go.
 
Tom J,

"Rick- we don't expect to get approvals but it is important to our story and our legal cases that we tried to do so."

If you don't get the permit to "excercise your right of assembly & free speech, you will be arrested for unlawful assembly or blocking the street - whatever.

"Of course if we receive approvals we will still be civilly disobedient to those laws in conflict with the second amendment."

Then you'll be arrested for that. On TV.

"I'm not sure we need specific leaders, why the net -group cannot continue to guide this effort as it has so far. When we march we will need one, two or three people who can act EXCLUSIVELY as our spokespeople with the media. Careful choice of these people can make or break the impression we make on the public via the media coverage."

If you don't have specific leaders, this ain't ever gonna happen & are you going to be one that's dragged off the street on TV? Don't matter who's spouting "But, The 2nd!" when they drag you off. & there won't be any media coverage except that painted to portray what "they" want portrayed.

"If we can bring 5000 + people to the steps of the Supreme Court I can guarantee a good media turnout! If we can't marshall the people count we should not go."

Look, Tom, I'm all for it. (I suspect that) the realities dictate otherwise however. & I'm not trying to throw cold water on your parade. You can't guarantee jack. Sorry, but that's the reality. Go away & cry about how "some a-holes in TFL (check my e-mail & talk to me direct if need be) wouldn't support yada yada."

Put this amount of effort into your state & local affairs (& invigorate other states too!) & turn it around at that level & you (we) won't need any march.

Come 7/2001, we're in similar state, I'll drive a Bradley downtown & no screwing around with "authentic replicas."
 
With all due respect, (And I'm not sure that's a great deal...) an armed march on Washington, even with no ammo, even with mock weapons, sounds to me like an agent provocateur's wet dream. I'd have absolutely nothing to do with it, and I'd advise everyone I know to boycott such a foolish venture as well. Turning it into a deadly fiasco would be as easy as falling off a log! In fact, I suspect it wouldn't even require any enemy action to accomplish!

That said, I do think there's something to be said for an UNARMED march on Washington, provided we could be sure to deliver more than a million people. Say, a TEN million man march? Our fair weather friends, and our half-hearted enemies, know by the numbers how many of us there are, but they hardly have a vicereal FEEL for it. I do think there would be some utility to scaring them spitless, and paralyzing the capitol for a week or so.

And I'd guess that by July fourth of next year, Clinton's exectutive actions, (And the GOP's likely capitulations!) will make those sorts of numbers feasible.

Call it "The LAST unarmed march on Washington".

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Sic semper tyranus!



[This message has been edited by Brett Bellmore (edited December 30, 1999).]
 
Gentlemen- it may indeed come to the pass that labgrade envisions.
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Unless we assemble for a parade in the streets, we do not need a permit to simply walk down the sidewalks of DC and meet together at the Supreme Court- such a walk
is protected speech under the first amendment. We are only subject to arrest if we block streets or disrupt activities (which we may in the end choose to do).
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We have no problem on the other hand helping to create an unarmed activity in protest of abuses of the second amendment.
 
What was the name of the Veteran's March on Wash DC (back in the 20s?) - Boxer Rebelion ? Sorry, have a brain-fade .... An unarmed march to protest WW1 vets not getting their promised bennies. Seems a few were shot ...
 
Labgrade: They were the "Bonus marchers". And they were positively Ghandian compared to what's been suggested here.

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Sic semper tyranus!
 
The Bonus Marchers were (for the most part unarmed) camping on my old high school grounds in Anacostia. They were rousted (after a few days) by army troops led by a young Army officer named Douglas MacArthur.
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Some of us have marched on Washington before in the 60's and 70's, we weren't shot and we weren't even beaten (like some in Chicago in '68). Do you really believe that any modern administration would use deadly force on a group with expressed non-violence, and with vetted unloaded arms (if that) openly exposed and delivered (in exchange for the test case arrest) to local authorities?
 
One of the suggestions made was to produce rifle, carbine and pistol helium filled balloons for marchers (walkers?) to carry to the steps of the Supreme Court, in addition to those mock or fake weapons and real unloaded riflers.
 
Tom: "Vetted" unloaded arms? What, you're going to have all one million of us go through a metal detector before the march? Nobody is going to pre-stage ammo under a bush along the march route, or keep it in their metal canteen? Look, for a march of five thousand, you MIGHT be able to assure that every gun was unloaded, though it would be a logistical nightmare. For a march of anything approaching one million, that's simply not going to happen in the real world. No way. Some nut is going to find a way to sneak ammo in. One of the inspectors will be bought off, or in cahoots with someone who wants to have ammo. Somebody on the other side will find a way. The feds will attack, and then PLANT ammo on us!

Flip this around, why don't you: At the Brass Roots rallies here in Michigan, we didn't bring guns, but we DID bring ammo: One round each from a gun we were willing to swear we'd never give up, no matter the cost.
(Actually, in that case it was fired brass, as we melted them all down to cast into a statue we presented the state legislature with.)

Think about how the Supremes would feel to find the steps of their building three feet deep in ammo! A rather pointed form of petition... And I don't believe that even in D.C. it's illegal to carry a cartridge without a gun.

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Sic semper tyranus!



[This message has been edited by Brett Bellmore (edited December 31, 1999).]
 
Good Idea Brett! The cartridge approach should receive serious discussion.
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You misunderstand the basic proposal though, which is for a few (perhaps 3 to 7 people-volunteers) to actually carry unloaded arms. All others agree to bear toy, mock, clearly (visually) decommissioned or representative weapons, balloons, and placards only. Perhaps they might also carry empty brass as you suggest or just empty brass and placards/ balloons.
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These few would expect arrest as civilly disobedient citizens and the march will have prepared bail. The march will communicate with the police and prepare clearly delineated, safe, non-violent means for making the arrest. All others bearing actual arms would have broken the terms of agreement for participation and would be arrested with the HELP of the marchers.
 
As Dutch said in the movie Predator: Bad Idea! ...way too many things can go wrong and one thing, and only one thing can go right... How can anyone like those odds?

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ff ...save the 2nd. No fate but what we make.
 
There are two main things to accomplish with this march:
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1 (The Most Important) Show that there is a large group of citizens who support the Second Amendment and our right to protst and petition the government using the First Amendments
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2 Perform civil disobedience with regard to unreasonable laws in conflict with our rights under the Second Amendment. Generate clear test cases with this action and follow the result up to the Supreme Court.
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It is possible that something could go wrong with the goal 2, and that is good reason to carefully consider it, plan it and be prepared to drop it if its use is not promising.

How on earth could anything go wrong with simply having 5000 or more people walk in protest to the Supreme Court on the 4th of July? This can not be a bad thing for our goal to preserve and promote the Second Amendment! It is not a diversion of effort from voting! Quite the contrary it will energize and improve the voting effort, convince the politicians that a sizable number of Americans value their rights under the Second Amendment and make it clear that we are not just gun industry hacks or mindless bubbas.
 
Maybe I am missing some subtle point.

Where does it say "to keep and bear /unloaded/ arms shall not be infringed."?

Better than a million gun march, a 5000 unloaded (whatever that means) armed (?) citizen march, would be Fifty, thats right
Fifty, Fife Zero! Non-CCW holders, Non-felons, with jobs, with more or less clean backgrounds, good social affiliations, non-military, non-law enforcement, just regular "Joes" dressed in their normal workday clothing, well groomed, openly carrying a side arm and long arm down towards your DC homeoffice of choice, justice, treasury (batf) whatever.

Chances are pretty good that the local constabulary (DC cops) have a SOP for dealing with an armed "suspect". There are investigative agencies that specialise in gathering evidence. Such an outfit would need to be hired and paid in full to document the march and subsquent arrests to be certain that all SOPs were followed to the letter and that a lawful witness can testify with evidence that no one acted up. All participants would need to carry whatever the trendy ID requirement is of the day (One from list "A" one from list "B") and a few hundred dollars in cash to avoid any oddball bail issues. Cellphones and calling cards would be nice also.

The gubbmint wouldn't let it ride, they would have to challenge and arrest. Its the law after all.

This would not be a good thing to do on July 4th as everyone already has their hands full. Some other holiday would be better.

These 50 should not "march" as a group, but rather walk with about a 5 ft interval.

Its my guess that if this "march" began Alexandria, they wouldn't even get across Memorial bridge before being apprehended.

It would be pretty important to avoid being arrainged as a group. Try to keep it as multiple instances in order to tie up the legal process as much as possible.

Once it is known that the 50 have been detained and apprehended, the next 50 begin their walk across the line into DC. . . . .
and then the next. . . .
 
Not bad Dog3! DC was laid out as a spoke and circle street system.
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In fact it is not necessary for people to walk together at all in order to converge from many directions on capital hill and the Supreme Court.
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We believe the likelyhood that a few people with unloade weapons (3 to 7)mixed in with a few thousand others with mock weapons, placards and balloons coming from all points of the compass are entirely likely to get close to or on the Supreme Court Steps with out all being stopped and arrested before reaching this goal.
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July 4th, because many people will be in the city and the media will be there in force to report on the activities and fireworks (as they do every year) is an excellent choice.
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Further as a national holiday no government offices will be open and thus we cannot be accused of trying to intimidate the feds or the justices by our acts of civil disobedience.
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Perhaps there is another day equally appropriate, but it would need to be in summer so that the possibility of other weapons or materials being hidden in the clothes of those who would disrupt our effort is eliminated. That is anyone who would be so clothed in DC in summer would certainly be suspect or at least more then a little nuts.
 
At this point I see no reason to break the law and provoke an arrest. We claim to be law abiding citizens then we should prove that we are.

We all hope to make a huge affect at the polls this November it would be good to back that up with a large legal demonstration.

It would be best to carry signs with as many pro-gun sound bytes as we can conjour up. If our numbers are large enough there will be some sort of media exposure.

If the main reason is a visual presentation of our numbers then we shouldn't muddy the waters by intentionally provoking aressts. A test case to push through to the supreme court can be created without exposing it to the problems of a mass armed march. We do need to attack on all fronts and we should be sure to prevent multiple efforts from conflicting.

A spent shell to leave as a permanent physical vote is an excellent idea. I plan to bring an '06 casing to reinforce a November Victory.

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It's a good life if you don't weaken.

[This message has been edited by Jace (edited January 01, 2000).]
 
JACE- defocusing is always a worry.
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Your view is shared by others and has great merit.
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A peaceful unarmed march may be best leaving civil disobedience for another day.
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Certainly if we succeed in getting a second amendment friendly president and a similar congress the march could become more of a victory parade. Also, a method to show these friendlier politicians that we expect actions to restore and strengthen the second star in the Bill of Rights!
 
Victory in November, Reinforce in July.

Plan to be there!

It would be good to rally over a November victory but that is only one battle. We must remember the war against government oppression has no end.

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It's a good life if you don't weaken.


[This message has been edited by Jace (edited January 01, 2000).]
 
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