patriot act

"Tell me what the purpose of barring me from having a bank account just because I don't have an arbitrary social redistribution ponzi scheme number is."

You say these things as if you think we are supposed to care if you have a bank account.

Tim
 
Heist, what exactly are you referring to in the Patriot Act that bars you from getting a bank account? Again, I think what you are getting at is that you don't believe in SSNs, therfore the Patriot Act is bad. Please explain how you made that jump?
 
I'm trying to open your eyes to the parts of the patriot act that have no redeeming value. I'm not overly inconvenianced- there's a solution to anything depending on how creative you are. However, you guys seem to be hung up on defending Asscroft's trash, so I give up.
 
Heist, the posts are about the "redeeming" provisions of the act. No one else is talking about SSNs and why you can't open your bank account.
 
Most of the Patriot act is unconstitutional, especially during peacetime. At least 90% of it should be repealed.

But while the government is (or at least should be) banned from wiretapping, searching, etc, US citizens, there's nothing to stop them from doing that stuff to aliens living in this country. And most of the terrorists are aliens, not citizens.

But a citizen should never be subject to unconstitutional survalliance by the govt. Thats why the P. Act should be repealed.

As Ben Franklin said "Those who would trade liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor security."

PS..sorry if anyone already posted that quote. I didnt get to read all the posts yet.
 
"Not a citizen of the US? You DON'T HAVE RIGHTS. Let the feds wiretap or do whatever to aliens(legal and illegal), just not to citizens without a warrant."

Exactly. Well said.
 
"Exactly. Well said."

I don't get it. Do you entirely disagree, then, with Marko's comment? Why should noncitizens have no rights?

Tim
 
well the terroist that hi-jacked the planes where here legally, they had passports and proper papers. this is the hole deal that piss's me off, the government knew these people where here and even knew what they where here for, but desided to wait til after it happen to do anything. they just needed an excuse to take away a few more rights from the shee.... i mean people of the US. :mad:
 
Clone, you just answered the nexus of this entire thread! Back before 9/11, unless someone was doing something criminal, you couldn't ivestigate them the way you could now. Info between crimnal and intelligence cases could not be shared. Info gathered from intel case could not be used in a criminal case. Prosecutors were much, much less willing to take on a case without some crime having been committed. Congrats, you articulated exactly why the Patriot Act needs to be kept.
 
They were investigated by the fbi and cia, but were thought to not be a threat by president-n-freinds. I still would rather have my rights than the illusion of safety that the patriot act gives. And shame on you for giving up your rights and freedom for false safety. You remember what Ben Franklin said about giving up your rights?
 
"False safety." How easily people forget.
Heist, the crime is there, however the manner in which spies and terrorists routinely conduct their operations allows them to escape the normal criminal procedures in our courts. Hence, that is why many laws were made that specifically address espionage and terrorism crimes. Crimes where the normal tradecraft conducted by spies and terrorists would not be compelling enough on their own to have PC, but that require a different investigation with different methods (these investigations are national security investigations). And despite the conspiracy theorists, these investigations are not initiated based on what book you check out of the library.
 
If most of the "Patriot" Act works, has already been used against the "Mafia" in the past - then why is the "Mafia" still around?

If it does not work on the "Mafia", why is it going to work on "terrorists" that are already here, can come here from all over the world by simply strolling across the borders - and law abiding people are the only ones that are going to have to live by the rules?

Problem, reaction, solution. Controlled conflict for controlled change.
 
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