patriot act

C

Clone

New member
the patriot act expires this year. should it be renewed or should it be allowed to expire.

Personaly i think its an invasion of every americans right to privacy, and should expire because it allows the fbi and police to go into your homes without warrents and without u even being home and conduct a search for what ever they suspect.

hmm poll didnt seem to work, but u can post the answers.
 
The Senate is working on expanding the Patriot Act. This is from the ACLU:

The bill would give the FBI "administrative subpoena" authority, permitting the bureau to write and approve its own search orders for any tangible thing held by a third party deemed relevant to an intelligence investigation, without prior judicial approval. This unilateral power would let agents seize personal records from medical facilities, libraries, hotels, gun dealers, banks and any other businesses without any specific facts connecting those records to any criminal activity or a foreign agent. This would drastically undermine the Fourth Amendment’s protections against unreasonable searches and seizures.
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Welcome to the New World Order. :barf:
 
#1, READ all the provisions of the Patriot Act. You will find that much of the crap floating around the media and internet are false. You cannot sneak into someone's house w/o a warrant, not a criminal search warrant. The warrants for national security matters are handled by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillence Court. They are called the "secret" courts by the media because, well, secret material is disclosed in them. A judge sits on this court, just like a criminal court, but the judge has been read in and cleared to review some of the nations most sophisticated techniques and most guarded sources.
You would be surprised, that most of the drug investigations are conducted with much less scrituny than these investigations.
 
So can you tell me how preventing me, a born US citizen, from getting a bank account is a good thing?

I have every piece of ID except for a top secret clearance pass, a sheriff's ID, and a SSN. Yet I can't get a bank account if my life depended on it. (currently use my LLCs, veil of seperation be damned)
 
Wow I always wondered if you could be raised in this country without an SSN and still have access to stuff.

How bad is it?
 
BreacherUp!:

i have a copy of the patriot act here, can u please specify what section that u read where they have to wait for a secret judge to warrent a search.

"SEC. 202. AUTHORITY TO INTERCEPT WIRE, ORAL, AND ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS RELATING TO COMPUTER FRAUD AND ABUSE OFFENSES." how does this relate to terroist protection? Are terroist now into copyright infringment to bring down the us? :rolleyes: my opinion is that "terriost" is just another excuse to write this law that gets a few more of my rights "outa the way".
 
Clone, I have the section, but not on me. Sorry. In order to conduct a FISA search, the search request must go to the FISC. Wherein the judge will make the determination whether the search can be conducted, the scope of the search, and what can be taken. Going into someone's home is the most intrusive investigative technique, therefore it must, and should, require the most scrutiny by a court. Unless you are involved in terrorism, espionage or other national securty matters, no one should be rummaging through your house with a FISA warrant.
The Patriot Act is not meant to be, nor should it be, a way to get around criminal courts. One safeguard that you never see mentioned by law is the censure of the guilty agent. If an agent deliberately went around the system, he/she would probably never be allowed to testify in court again. Career done.
Again, these matters are under WAYYY more scrutiny then a normal drug investigation.
 
One more time for the hearing impaired:

So can you tell me how preventing me, a born US citizen, from getting a bank account is a good thing?
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I want you to tell me, breacher, why you think that's a good thing. If you would like bonus humilation points, say things like "how can you be a citizen without a ssn" or "it's the law for kids to get it". ;)

Dolan: Ranges from impossible to marginally challenging depending on the state.
 
Heist, haven't the feintest at what you are getting at. The only poster who seems humilated is the one without an SSN (and a bank account).
 
Rework it to only target NON US citizens.

Not a citizen of the US? You DON'T HAVE RIGHTS. Let the feds wiretap or do whatever to aliens(legal and illegal), just not to citizens without a warrant.
 
Again, Jonathon, you NEED a warrant to wiretap. Whether it is from the FISC or a criminal court. And yes, there are more restrictions when it comes to monitoring US persons vs. Non-USPER.
 
And, most of the Patriot Act provisions have been used for years against the Mafia.

All most of the Patriot Act provisions do, is expand the same rules used for a long time against organized crime to cover terrorist.

When these techniques were being used to lock up New York and New Jersey crime bosses and bust their organizations, nobody was worried about it.

Since 911 and the Patriot Act there's been a fair number of terrorist groups busted in the States, sometimes just before they were ready to act.

So far, NONE have actually managed to stage something.

I'll give Bush the benefit of the doubt on this one.
So far, I haven't seen anyone goose-stepping down the streets and hauling people off to "The Camps", not even the Arch-Fascist John Ashcroft.
 
Heist, haven't the feintest at what you are getting at. The only poster who seems humilated is the one without an SSN (and a bank account).
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I'm not surprised that you don't have the 'feintist' ;)

One last time,

Pretty pretty please,

Tell me what the purpose of barring me from having a bank account just because I don't have an arbitrary social redistribution ponzi scheme number is.
 
Yeah...me too!!!

Not having that bank account would bother me even more if I actually used money, but since I know that all paper money is actually worthless since the Gold Standard was abolished, it really doesn't effect me all that much.

I'm happy as long as I have my tin foil....lots and lots of tin foil.

;)
 
And, most of the Patriot Act provisions have been used for years against the Mafia.

All most of the Patriot Act provisions do, is expand the same rules used for a long time against organized crime to cover terrorist.

When these techniques were being used to lock up New York and New Jersey crime bosses and bust their organizations, nobody was worried about it.

I agree. I never understood why these actions are "good" when against organized crime, drug dealers/cartels, etc.. but "bad" when used against terrorists.

Also, why do people get riled up over books checked out of a library, yet ignre far greater dangers in the form of private "datamining" companies? Actions by equifax/et. al. have a far greater effect on the average citizen!
 
Not a citizen of the US? You DON'T HAVE RIGHTS.
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So if my mother comes over from Germany to visit me, the government should be able to strip-search her, detain her without a warrant, prohibit her from exercising her religion, tape her mouth shut, and confiscate her travel money without a warrant or reason?
 
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