Path to take to being an EXPERT Sharpshooter/Marksman

My pleasure

Achille,

It was my pleasure to write that info for you. Your curiosity is warmly received. Better to learn by asking questions than to act like you know something and wind up with a problem. When handling guns the margin of error is too thin and mistakes can often result in life altering devastation.

As you can see from many of the responses, people in the gun culture are really happy to share information and help to educate new enthusiasts. We take it as a responsibility to our community that new shooters are given assistance. In the current political climate it is all too easy for anti-gun forces to blame the gun or gun culture for mistakes and negligent behavior.

Always remember that safety is paramount in this lexicon.

Feel free to contact me with any other questions you may have and if you ever get up to eastern PA it would be a pleasure to let you shoot some of my personal collection.

Best to you.
 
get REALLY good at shooting.
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The best advice I can think of is to first learn the five safety rules by heart. Learn them, know how to apply them, and LIVE by them. Then take some form of training (either formal or informal) with someone who knows what they're doing and how to teach it. That's to learn the fundamentals of marksmanship.



Then buy a single shot rifle and pistol to practice those fundamentals.
 
Whis is it called Cowboy Action Shooting?

Well, I guess it is best just to refer to you a couple of videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kGQQ9wjzOw

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmd6KNQMEuM

As you can see, the costumes can get expensive! Also you need FOUR guns. It is a blast and is as much about friendship as the shooting.

And if you have a horse, or want one, check out Cowboy Mounted Shooting Association's video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iihCQlPFIMk

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE-FthPCsa8

As I read these posts, I agree with getting a .22 rifle or pistol to get started at the lowest cost; and then go to an appleseed event!

Of course, after I bought my first gun, the first question that was asked of me was "Whay do you want to kill people?" :eek: :mad:

My answer was "I want to shoot for sport, like Cowboy Action Shooting not to kill anyone!" I couldn't believe the questions some people come up with.
 
I googled rifle ranges St. Louis, MO and got lots of hits. The training is there.

Can you expound a bit more on what you mean via "Tactical" vs. "Sport-Oriented"? Does one type of training have ther advantage over the other?
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Tactical shooting is related to military, police, and self protection. There are competitive shooting sports that use tactical shooting as a basis, but mostly it's about defending your self from bad guys.

Sport shooting covers a large variety of shooting. It's main aim is personal satisfaction. There is over lap with tactical shooting.
 
thesheepdog said:
It depends from place to place.
According to Appleseed Specs, a Rifleman (expert) is at the top of the shooting abilties; below that is Sharpshooter; then Marksman. Anything lower than that is disqualified.

The term Marksman is used for Infantry trained in longer range shooting than the basic grunt. Hence why you see "Designated Marksman" in the Army.

Sharpshooters are mostly heard of in Police; it's their term for someone highly trained in precise tactical rifle engagements.

"Rifleman" is a civilian who can consistently score the "expert" score on the AQT (Army Qualification Test). This is designated as hitting the center "5" ring (4 MOA or better) from 100-400 yards; standing, sitting and prone positions without the use of a bench or bipod.
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Ahhh! Puts so much into perspective. Thank you.

Is the 100-400 range typically what is referred to as the "sniper" range in the military? Or are there distances required for that that are longer?

I'm asking because a couple of buddies from mine in the army, told me that how the drill seargants select who goes to Sniper school/training, is based on some type of test, where if they pass with flying colors and excel in certain long-ranged rifle shooting tests, they automatically qualify as a sniper.

and I was just wondering if this "Rifleman" range was it.

thanks
 
Thanks again, 2gunz, WW2 and 5whiskey!

Man, I'm loving this community ALREADY!

And I just got here! LOL!

Wasnt sure which gun forum, out of the hundreds online there are to join-- so I just pulled the trigger on the one that looked the most comprehensive, and I am EXTREMELY happy with all the replies, responses and new ppl I am meeting within my first couple of days!

LOL-- I've learned so much already! Cant thank you guys enough!
 
Buzzcook said:
I googled rifle ranges St. Louis, MO and got lots of hits. The training is there.

Tactical shooting is related to military, police, and self protection. There are competitive shooting sports that use tactical shooting as a basis, but mostly it's about defending your self from bad guys.

Sport shooting covers a large variety of shooting. It's main aim is personal satisfaction. There is over lap with tactical shooting.
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Okay. That makes sense!

Now, the one shooting event where the disc goes flying through the air, and people aim a rifle to shoot at it while it's up in the air, would be an example of sport shooting, correct?

Man-- it seems with that amount of movement, versus the somewhat static targets one would find in a more police tactical range shooting environment, that the "sport shooting" one would take a LOT more skill to shoot down, thus SEEMING to give that form of training an advantage over the tactical methods.

I mean-- it certainly would take more concentration and aim, right? Imagine if someone can shoot a moving object out of the air, how EASY it comparably would seem to shoot a STILL object.

So can sport shooting train one a lot faster for tactical shooting than even the tactic methods can?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just wondering...
 
kind of chuckling at your most recent question...

All in good fun, Achilles.

What you just described is actually shooting with a shotgun. A shotgun is a long arm but not a rifle. A shotgun shoots a load of what is called "shot". That is to say the shell holds a bunch of little projectiles that fan out and can hit the flying target. A rifle, by contrast, has a what is called a cartridge and shoots one single projectile.

The shotgun is generally used to shoot winged critters. The shot (also called bird-shot) spreads out and creates what is known as a pattern, thereby making it easy to shoot flying objects. The rifle is generally used to shoot earth-bound game. I am not going to get into slug guns because you have reached a point in your line of questioning that requires you to now go out and take a class or 3. Start with a basic intro to firearms class that covers all types of guns; shotgun, handgun and rifle. There you will learn the differences and then you will have a better idea of the various uses...and why I am laughing.

I am a little curious how old you are. Your lack of knowledge is sort of well, a challenge to an instructor. I don't say that to be harsh but you really don't know the first thing about guns and there is so much to learn.

Get busy kid. Take notes. Maybe even start by doing a Google search of shotgun, rifle, handguns and get some definitions to start with. You have a lot to learn.

Again, I am not laughing to be mean. It is just that usually people have some idea about some gun nomenclature. To meet someone who knows nothing is actually good in many ways because you don't have any preconceived notions or bad habit to break.

Welcome to the world of firearms and please be safe.
 
So can sport shooting train one a lot faster for tactical shooting than even the tactic methods can?
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There is one most important common denominator; that is the willingness of the shooter to put in the time and effort to be the best they can.
 
I have to be honest, I've been grinning while reading this thread the past few days. I know you other guys have too, don't lie.

I'm compiling a bit of basic info into a PM that I'll send you regarding some basics when it comes to firearms; but I'm actually a bit surprised that none of us have taken the time to post the following. If you've noticed though, everyone tends to drop in little tid-bits about safety, being safe, and knowing safety protocol on a consistently repetitive basis. This is what we mean:

The 4 Laws of Gun Safety

1. The Gun is Always Loaded.

Every gun you handle, you should handle like it has a live round in the chamber and is ready to fire; because it very-well might. Even if there is no reasonable doubt in your mind, treat it like it's loaded. Every time you place your hands on a weapon that was not previously in your hand (i.e. handed to you by another person, lying on the table, from a holster) you "clear" the weapon by ejecting the magazine, and opening the breach or chamber to inspect it for live rounds (IN THAT ORDER). This may seem repetitive and redundant, but it has saved hundreds of lives at the very least. If a weapon is being passed between several men standing in a circle, each time it's handed over, even though you saw the other guy check it out, every single person should clear the weapon for themselves.

2. Never Point the Weapon at Anything You Are Not Prepared to Destroy.

Down at the ground is best, but when handling a gun at a range, ALWAYS have the muzzle pointed down-range or at the ground. When handling a gun indoors, have it pointed down to the floor or toward a solid structure like a brick wall. Just like Rule 1, this applies to loaded and unloaded firearms ubiquitously, and without exception.

3. Keep Your Finger Off the Trigger Until Your Sights Are On Target.

Often called "trigger discipline", keeping your finger completely away from the trigger until your sights are on target and you are ready to fire should be second nature. This can be easily accomplished by full extension of the trigger finger until the moment firing the weapon is required. While holstering, drawing, handling, cleaning, or practicing with the weapon, your finger should never make contact with the trigger, or even break the barrier of the trigger guard.

4. Be Sure of Your Target And of What Is Behind It.

When shooting, one must remember that bullets penetrate, often past the target object. So we must remember that bullets will continue until they reach something that completely stops them. Therefore, shooting without a backstop or enough CLEARED open space behind the target can be dangerous. Shooting safely requires significant open ground and/or a solid backstop to catch the rounds fired.

_______________________________________________________________

Any real shooter will be able to recite these laws and explain them to you in detail by heart. Every new shooter I've trained, I've provided with a printed copy of these laws and had them keep it with their weapon as a constant reminder.

If you begin a lesson with an instructor and you can tell him these laws by heart, I promise you it will calm his nerves significantly. Even more so when he sees you following them to the letter. I often find that following these are the hardest thing to train some new shooters to adhere to, so they DEFINITELY belong in a Beginner's Training Regimen.

~LT
 
Ahhh! Puts so much into perspective. Thank you.

Is the 100-400 range typically what is referred to as the "sniper" range in the military? Or are there distances required for that that are longer?

I'm asking because a couple of buddies from mine in the army, told me that how the drill seargants select who goes to Sniper school/training, is based on some type of test, where if they pass with flying colors and excel in certain long-ranged rifle shooting tests, they automatically qualify as a sniper.

and I was just wondering if this "Rifleman" range was it.

thanks
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Technically the term "Sniper" is used for Military Personnel trained in long range engagements, cocealment, and recon.

100-400 yards is a standard engagement range for most "Riflemen". A civilian can be just as good a shot as a "Sniper", with the exception of the Military training in recon and such.
Modern day Snipers usually are trained to engage out to 1,000 meters with the standard M24 Sniper system. The M82A1 (Barrett .50 Cal) is designed for shots past 1,500 meters.

If you're lucky, you can find you a range that has a 1,000 yard range on it; then practice up to that point to be a very good precision shooter.

Now what you probably need to know is there are two types of distance shooting for rifles; Bench Rest shooting and actual Practical/Tactical shooting.
Practical/Tactical you're using a sling/bipod/ruck sack to stabilize your rifle in prone; whereas bench shooting you have a bench that holds your rifle in position so your shots aren't affected by recoil-personally I think this defeats the purpose of Marskmanship.

The Army selects who it wants to select. Yeah you can score an expert score on the AQT but if you have other issues (bad eyesight, physical disabilities, etc) you probably won't get in; It's similar to the selection for fighter pilots.

100-400 yards is a 1/4 mile; also known as the Rifleman's 1/4 mile.
 
I sent you a PM clarifying some commonly-used terminology along with an explanation of some of the more common firearms types, what they fire, and how it all works.

To answer your question:

So can sport shooting train one a lot faster for tactical shooting than even the tactic methods can?
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Sport shooting does use very similar skill-sets to tactical shooting, like aligning your sights, hitting what you're aiming at, judging distance, point of aim, breathing, trigger control, and recoil-handling. However, the difference is, when you are shooting clay pigeons, they aren't shooting back at you.

This is the defining factor of Tactical Training. Yes it is about shooting and hitting your target, but it incorporates so much more than that. The term "Tactical" means using specific skills and knowledge and applying them in a variety of circumstances in order to achieve the intended outcome. This is much different than shooting for sport in which you can stand, grip, time, and shoot however you please.

In tactical training, you learn skills like:
Movement: To, from, and while under cover, away or toward the source of fire, why, while shooting/reloading, how to move in order to maintain proper shooting technique while minimizing risk of being shot, etc...

Tactical/Emergency Reloading: How to reload your weapon when completely out of ammunition, when to reload in order to minimize threat to yourself while you cannot return fire, how to deal with malfunctions in loading, etc...

Non-Ideal Shooting: How to shoot with your off hand in case of dominant hand injury, how to shoot from retention, how to shoot single handed, how to shoot while in a grapple, how to retain your weapon when attacked, etc...

Dynamic Movement: How to properly enter a room or environment that is possibly unsafe, how to minimize risk of exposure to possible fire, how to fire and reload from a number of possible body positions (standing, sitting, lying on your stomach, back, side, or while aiming around a corner), etc...

Fire/No Fire Scenarios: How to distinguish between a target and a friendly, increasing your reaction time, when you have the RIGHT to fire or use lethal force, Force-On-Force laws, etc...

Support Tactics: How to reload quickly and efficiently, how to draw quickly and efficiently, how to use cover and aim-support quickly and efficiently, where to carry your weapon or magazines for greater efficiency, challenging your carriage system, discovering and mastering the benefits and limitations of the specific weapon you are using in whatever specific environment and scenario to which you are applying it, etc...

Among many, many others. So, while sport shooting can help you to build the aiming and movement anticipation skills required for accurate gun handling, Tactical Training involves a LOT more than just hitting what you're aiming at by standing still; and requires a LOT more training to become proficient at an effective level.

~LT
 
kudos to LordTio

Nicely done LordTio:

I was pressed for time and frankly, didn't know where to begin with the latest series of questions from young Achillies. There is just so much to cover.

Seems he is earnest about learning so I really think the lad needs to get to some classes and hit the books. He is not going to get all that he needs here.

I also thought of posting the 4 rules of gun safety but, as I stated, was pressed for time last night.

I do think he has had his eyes opened/interest piqued and if he is truly serious he will start into some formal training ASAP

Cheers
 
I am also impressed by the quantity and quality of person's contributing to the rise of Achilles. As long as my opinion is welcome, I stand by this; "The kid's got Moxie."

There truly is a wealth of knowledge out there that just keeps growing by the day. You really can't even imagine how much. But you'll find out soon enough that any shooter that has spent his years in the art is about as knowledgeable as you need to be to convert and effectively "initiate" someone into the arts. Suffice it to say, any veteran worth his salt knows the basics well enough to teach them.

Keep em' coming boys. It warms my heart to see.

~LT
 
First, memorize the four rules of gun safety. http://thefiringline.com/library/safetyrules.html
No sane person wants to be shot by ANY firearm. We want to enjoy our firearms experiences without injury or death. These four rules will keep you and those around you safe. They are ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL for all responsible shooters.

Second, browse through the terms and definitions here http://corneredcat.com/Glossary/glossary.aspx
Mrs. Jackson even has some terms I did not fully understand. This is an excellent resource.

Third, get some professional training. The NRA basic classes are good places to start. Some other companies and organizations provide excellent classes as well (but are not quite as standardized).

Fifth, find a place to safely practice. There are thousands of ranges across the country. Some are great, some not so much. Not all will have the facilities for every type of practice. Some are multi-million dollar complexes and others are just areas with a safe back-stop. Find one that can meet your shooting needs.

Also, make sure you understand the laws in your area. These include state and federal laws (possibly local laws as well). There are many resources for this, but these are good starting points.
http://www.nraila.org/gunlaws/
http://www.handgunlaw.us/

______________________________________________

Shooting can be a great hobby and a deadly serious topic. If you are looking for a challening hobby to learn and improve your skills, shooting can do that. If you are looking for a way to provide food or protection, it can do that too. Each person has their own set of skills, desires, and needs. The shooting community is as diverse as olympic biathletes to military special operations warriors. Don't be afraid to try out several shooting activities. Some people want a zen-like quest to achieve the perfect 100m rifle grouping. Others want to beet speed records with pistols at 7yards. Still others want to provide extra food for their families or protect their loved ones from criminals. These differences create a WIDE variety of shooting disciplines, firearms, and techniques.

What do you want to get out of shooting?
 
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I AM looking to invest heavily into learning HOW to fire one, and how to get REALLY good at shooting.

Is there any way of doing this? Or gauging my "growth" as far as skill? I especially love the conept of being able to shoot accurately from long distances.

This will be my new-found hobby, as my fascination for this tremendous art grows by the DAY!
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Want to be a shooter? Hang out with 'em. You can get some good tips from those who shoot regularly at the local range. And your skill level will be readily apparent by comparing yourself with those around you. Go easy and let them get to know you.

The best shooters in America came from the ranks of those who grew up with guns and hunted a lot. However, some late starters are naturals.:cool:
 
What has become of young Achilles? I for one am hoping for an update very soon on what his intentions are for putting us all to shame at the firing ranges;).

~LT
 
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