Parents upset about shell casings brought to class

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Oatka

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"I don't see that anything was done wrong," Gould said. "In hindsight, if we're being politically correct, maybe we should have done it differently. But as far as I'm concerned, this issue is closed." -- Good for the superintendent!
http://www.theheraldbulletin.com/cgi-bin/LiveIQue.acgi$rec=233401?hb_story

Parents upset about shell casings brought to class

Publication date: Thursday, May 18, 2000

BY STACEY M. LANE GROSH

Staff Reporter

MIDDLETOWN -- As part of a counting and estimating lesson Monday, a 5-year-old girl brought 31 bullet casings to her kindergarten class.

The idea has sent Shenandoah Elementary School parents reeling, horrified with the thought of if a child could bring in something like that, what else does she have access to?

But school officials don't believe it's a big deal.

"The teacher told the students when they saw the shell casings that they were not real bullets and they could not hurt anybody," said Superintendent Mark Gould. "No student appeared to be frightened or raised an issue."

The casings were from a 9 mm, which can be used for target practice. A town ordinance forbids the shooting of any gun within the town limits, even for practice. The parents provided the casings to the child.

"The issue is that (the parents) needed a bunch of things in a jar for their daughter's class that was the same," said Principal Linda McGalliard. "In retrospect they wish they didn't give her shell casings. I know these people are not irresponsible in any way. It was poor judgment to send it to school with their daughter to be counted. There were no ill intentions."

The parents of the girl were unavailable for comment.

Six-year-old Morgan Lowry's mother tried to report the incident about the shell casings in school as soon as she heard about it.

"I went to pick up Morgan from afternoon kindergarten, and when she got in the car she said, 'Guess what (the girl) brought to school today? Bullets!'" recalled Sonya Lowry, 35. "I asked her, 'Are you sure?' and she said "Yes, I'm sure.' I just couldn't believe it. I made her draw me a picture. If they are empty casings, I don't care. It's the idea that they are brought to school and now the kids think bullets are neat."

Lowry claims to have called the school and tried to get in touch with the principal about the spent casings when she got home.

"I was told she was a real busy person and she couldn't come to the phone," Lowry said. "I explained why I was calling and said I needed to talk to her right away, and they said they'd give me her voice mail. I hung up and called the news station. The school didn't seem to care."

The school maintains they were never contacted -- the principal, administrative assistant, teacher or secretary -- about the incident. McGalliard said not one parent called the school to complain about the incident, but she did talk to each parent with a student in the kindergarten class. She also sent home a letter to parents Wednesday explaining the situation.

"It was never any threat to the safety of students," Gould said. "There was never any intention to cause harm. In my view, the teacher did not do anything incorrectly. As far as this issue goes, there was no violation of the policies. The spent casings are not considered a weapon."

The 5-year-old did not receive any punishment for bringing the casings to school.

The casings were brought to Darlene Utt's class as part of a counting project, where kids bring in a jar of small items so they can practice estimating. The kindergartners usually bring in things such as M&Ms, pennies or spaghetti sticks. After doing an estimate and writing it down, the kids count the items, and whoever is the closest gets to take the jar home with them to fill it up for the next day.

"Was there any harmful intent? No," McGalliard said. "Was anyone hurt? No. ... Was it something inappropriate? Yeah, no doubt. The little girl happened to bring in spent shell cases. It would be like an empty soup can or empty box; there's nothing inside."

The whole incident has other parents of Shenandoah students worried.

"The school told us that the news is blowing the whole thing out of proportion," said Ellen McClurg, who has a third-grader at the school and will have her 4-year-old attend next year. "I don't think so. They aren't addressing the issue. The teacher knew that the shell casings were in the school and she let the kids mess with them. The principal told me today that if anything like this ever happens again to just call and leave a voice mail. 'I check it two to three times a day.'"

"I don't see that anything was done wrong," Gould said. "In hindsight, if we're being politically correct, maybe we should have done it differently. But as far as I'm concerned, this issue is closed."

Reporter Stacey Grosh can be reached at sgrosh@indol.com.

--End--

It might be a good idea to write the reporter backing the superintendent - I imagine some of the sheeple will create problems for him.
 
Oh, for the days when kids could take their .22 rifles to school for show-and-tell!

I remember when I was in elementary (in the late 70's, early 80's), a kid brought his rifle and some mounted antlers from deer he had shot over the Xmas break to class, and everyone, including the teacher, was oohing and ahhing over them!

Heck, if my girls were in public school, I'd send casings with them too.

------------------
"Liberty or death, What we so proudly hail... Once you provoke Her, rattling of Her tail- Never begins it, NEVER- But once engaged never surrenders, showing the fangs of rage. DON'T TREAD ON ME!!

"Many's the men who've battled foe
many the number slain,
many the lads have fallen though
Scotland shall rise again."
 
E-gads! There's a school official out there with common sense?! I shocked!!!

I took a Chicom Type 56 SKS carbine to school for show and tell when I was in the 4th grade (California, 1970). I asked and the school district said it was okay. I hand carried it to and from school unsupervised by any adult, and it was stored in the coat closet of my classroom. Boy how things have changed!

The SKS was a war trophy recovered from the Vietnam battlefield where my father earned his Purple Heart.

------------------
/s/ Shawn Dodson
Firearms Tactical Institute
http://www.firearmstactical.com
 
It wasn't too long ago that a kid was expelled for bringing shell casings to class that he found on school property. Rich (TFL Rich) was going to put up some money for his defense and everything. The story is probably in the archives of the legal and political forum.

Joe

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So, does everyone have a cow if a student brings in the shedded skin from a rattlesnake? Sheesh!

Kudos to the school officials for not freaking out. :cool:
 
So much for 'government schools'.

Let me tell you what one of my nephews did and the terrific school he attends.

The 5th grade (I think) does a 'country' project each year and my nephew had Germany. Now I'm no big fan of Der Fuhrer, but my nephew decides that he'll don the costume and go to school. But he needs props (he's a ham and a half).
He goes to school carrying the P38 that my Dad brought back from WWII, and a British 303. Nobody worried, nobody thought he was going to run amok and start capping kids.
My hat goes off to private schools that don't have to bow to the government's idea of indoctrination, and THANK GOD for superintendants that can use some common sense!
 
Well, I certainly wouldn't have a problem with it, but something just kept nagging....

Ok, example: A jar full of soda bottle caps would be a very appropriate item to bring to class. A jar full of BEER bottle caps might seem a little..... Maybe one is a little more "adult oriented" than the other?
 
Fastforty,

I agree, this is a question of judgement not level of potential threat. If the child brought in the body (no needle) of a clean unused hypodermic syringe (parents not involved in medicine or diabetic etc etc), we as parents would be horrified, saying it was a "sign of the times" and "what else must this child have access to ?". We should not let our support of RKBA get in the way of common sense, 5 year old girls and guns may be someones idea of progress but it isn't mine. Supporting this kind of thing is not the way forward for our cause, bullet casings, pulled bullets, primers or Hodgdon pellets are not playthings to be counted like M&M's or pennies, they are the vital ingredients of a lethal weapon, period.

Mike H
 
Well, I can only assume that if this is considered to be inappropriate, then The History Channel is going to be considered "Adult Entertainment", because it contains graphic footage of firearms, spent casings being ejected from mortars, ships being sunk, aircraft being shot down, etc.

There is a well defined line between what IS dangerous, and what is not.

Example: My little one found a car key lying on the sidewalk;

1. Is he to run home and report it to a responsible adult. Whereby we call 911, and have the damgerous object retrieved, and properly disposed of.

2. He picks it up, and his life is forever changed. He dares to put it in a car door, and it opens. Horror of horrors, he tries the ignition, and the car starts. Well, we can all imagine the horrors of this scenario.
All because of that evil key.
Someone's gonna pay for this!!!


Spent bullet casings aren't a dangerous entity. They're exactly what they're being described as, EMPTY.
No primer, no powder, no projectile, just a casing.
And, I might add, the casing is the most inert, and safest part of the whole assembled bullet.
It doesn't flash, as does the primer and powder. It doesn't hurl through the air, as does the projectile. Except being ejected from the firearm after being discharged. That's it!!

It doesn't carry a communicable disease.
It doesn't have the ability to induce a mind-altered state(drug).
It doesn't have the ability to kill, unless swallowed.

Personal feelings on this. I think the school supt. did the right thing about not getting politically carried away.
I think a great many people have been conditioned to fear the wrong things. And too many titles have over reacted to the "perceived crisis" about guns.
Much of that is political favoritism, and seeking to further their carrer in a system that clearly fosters such behavior.

Best Regards,
Don

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The most foolish mistake we could make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms; history shows that all conquerers who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall.
Adolf Hitler

[This message has been edited by Donny (edited May 21, 2000).]
 
"I was told she was a real busy person and she couldn't come to the phone," Lowry said. "I explained why I was calling and said I needed to talk to her right away, and they said they'd give me her voice mail. I hung up and called the news station. The school didn't seem to care."

Yes, it's a lot of trouble to leave a voice mail. And, this was clearly an emergency situation. ;) What a load of cr*p.

This was an anti-self defense gun bigot that couldn't wait to alert the media to another 'gun' story.

Good for Gould! I agree that this was an odd way to comply with the class project, but the superintendent kept the issue in proportion.

BTW, this story seems to be at least twice as long as necessary. The reporter repeats the same info over and over. Poorly written, IMHO.

Regards from AZ
 
"It's the idea that they are brought to school and now the kids think bullets
are neat."

No, you idiot, she thinks they are neat because you make them taboo. She makes a big deal about them because YOU make a big deal about them. Anything that kids can't talk about, mention, ever see, touch etc is going to become worshiped by them. They will make it a primery goal to someday play with that taboo item as an adventure.


The way the news makes a sensational story out of everything, what do you want to bet that there is ONE parent at the head of this problem. She alone has her panties in a wad over this, and the story makes it sound like the parents are all rioting. There is only one troublemaker there, and it is that mom.



I would like to write the Superntendent and congratulate him for standing up against the evils of political correctness. Anyone know how to get a hold of him?




[This message has been edited by Red Bull (edited May 21, 2000).]
 
I guess the other kid's parents would have prefered Spent Condoms in the jar, right? Because that would be showing the end of a responsible act?!? we are doomed
 
Red Bull - The only way I know of is through the editor via a "please pass this on" at: psanders@indol.com or the reporter: sgrosh@indol.com

That's what I did, as well as chiding Ms. Grosh for inserting the insinuating "A town ordinance forbids the shooting of any gun within the town limits, even for practice.".
It added nothing to the story and implied a wrongdoing when none occurred.
 
I recently ran a shoot for my nephews scout troop.
My brother being the scout master for the group, organized a weekend campout with 8 boys and their fathers.
The weekend theme was a shooting weekend for fathers and sons.
It was preceeded by a firearm safety course,lecture,questions & answers...etc.
given by yours truly.
I supplied most of the firearms, and a majority of the ammunition....another scout master was an avid shooter he brought some nice duplicates of what I toted along.
It made letting two shooters shoot the same firearm alongside another scout or father.


At the "Big weekend" we shot everything from 10/22's,SKS,M1Garand,M1A,AR15,TRAP&SKEET,revolvers.

These kids had more extensive training in safety and practical guidance than I ever got as a kid.

With the help of the other qualified firearm owner. We were able to let 2 kids at a time shoot each and every firearm we brought to their hearts content.
The fathers learned just as much as the scouts, and at times were even more excited and interested in shooting.

BUT......the "SAD" part was when I having a little foresight, announced that their would be a "BRASS check" done at the conclusion of the shooting and the policing of the range and grounds.
Needless to say it, but the scouts were quite pissed as they had been collecting and hording the spent cases.
We made them turn them in to us....and then explained, that we knew that the temptation to keep a few and show them off at school the following week would be great....but that we could not let them do it, for fear of repercussions in the current zero tolerance enviorment of the paranoid school system.
They grudingly nodded in aquiecence, and the fathers understood and supported my decission.

I have to tell you I was not happy to have to do it.....because I kept my brass trophies as a kid.

Each scout was permited to keep 2 empty shotgun shells to make matching Bolo slides for father and son's scout uniforms.

"I hated to do it....but after reading the post here.....was glad for the forsight".

WOLF
 
...just noticed this thread...
I think I've read about such incidents before but still find it hard to believe. My girlfriend is a teacher and occasionally goes shooting with me. Last year she needed ideas for some extra work for the art class, so we went to the range and picked up a bucketful of various cases. She washed them, took them to school and had kids build neat-looking mobiles with string and metal wire. A fun project, and nobody blinked an eye. Kids thought it was cool and she told them about my shooting activities and that guns weren't bad if you were responsible and safe. I wonder if she'd still have her job had that happened over in the U.S.

Timo
 
Timo, your comments are interesting, coming from Finland.

Here in the States, as you can imagine, we're often chided about our Neanderthal 'gun culture', how we're an anomoly among 'industrial' countries and on and on. Fascinating that in Finland they wouldn't bat an eye over this foolishness, but in the States we've become psychotic about this kind of thing.

Thanks for helping us retain some perspective.

Regards from AZ
 
Mike H,

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If the child brought in the body (no needle) of a clean unused hypodermic syringe (parents not involved in medicine or diabetic etc etc), we as parents would be horrified, saying it was a "sign of the times" and "what else must this child have access to ?".[/quote]

I think your horror threshold is set a little too low. ;) There's something sinister about clean, unused syringes without needles? Gee, maybe the kid has access to tongue depressors and cotton swabs, too!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Supporting this kind of thing is not the way forward for our cause, bullet casings, pulled bullets, primers or Hodgdon pellets are not playthings to be counted like M&M's or pennies, they are the vital ingredients of a lethal weapon, period. [/quote]

I wouldn't suggest empty 9mm cases as the best items to fill a counting jar, but then again I wouldn't get very upset if another parent provided them. I certainly wouldn't worry about the kids being exposed to "ingredients". My only concern would be lead exposure if the cases hadn't been cleaned.

What harm might come from the children seeing and handling the cases?
 
Matt,

When I was about 8, a friend and myself were caught playing catch with live 12 gauge shells, my friends father was a keen shooter and his boy (my friend) had regular access to all the bits and pieces. The point is that in spite of being around guns all the time (where I was not) he had no respect for them, to him (and me) at the age of 8, they were playthings that required no special handling. This is why we lose so many kids to firearms related accidents each year, i would suggest that if the Finns lost as many their attitudes would doubtless harden. This is not about demonizing or villifying firearms but simply to teach proper respect and put them in the right context as weapons and not playthings. I have no problem whatsoever letting a 5 year old load mags with live rounds, but I would not let her use spent cartridges to build "bullet pyramids" or decorate a new collar for the dog, he has enough problems of his own. There is a time and a place for everything, and I think that at the very least, these parents showed poor judgement in the light of recent school shootings. Either you see it or you don't, there's no way this can be "proved" to any degree of satisfaction.

Mike H
 
Mike,

Your reasoning here seems contradictory:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The point is that in spite of being around guns all the time (where I was not) he had no respect for them, to him (and me) at the age of 8, they were playthings that required no special handling. This is why we lose so many kids to firearms related accidents each year, i would suggest that if the Finns lost as many their attitudes would doubtless harden. [/quote]

You seem to be saying that casual attitudes towards firearms and their accessories lead to accidents, yet the Finns have both a more casual attitude and a lower rate of accidents. I would look at the same situation and say that if the Finns do have a lower rate of gun accidents, it's because they have a more realistic (not "hardened") attitude. Some things (such as guns and ammunition) have a greater potential than others (such as empty cases) to cause injury and the degree of care with which each class of items is treated should reflect that, IMHO.

Also, I'm not sure that losing "so many" children in gun accidents is a good reason for hysteria (on the part of the parents, not you) over a jar of empty cartridge cases. The phrase "so many" suggests that children are dropping dead from accidental shootings left and right, when in fact the statistics show that such deaths are rare. Far more children die in drownings than in gun accidents -- but do you think the parents would have been horrified by a jar of water?

I can see that we aren't going to convince each other on this, so I'm willing to agree to disagree.
 
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