Was surfing another Forum site and saw something I wish my feable mind would have thought of.....converting a ParaOrdnance P16-40 from 40S&W to 10mm. Has anyone taken on such a project? Should only require reaming out the barrel to 10mm case length and maybe a recoil spring change. Would love to hear all ideas on this, especially from successful/unsuccessful attempts. I have the 10mm Fever and the Doc says I need to get as many as possible. The way I look at it: HiCap 10mm for the price of a single-stack, used Delta Elite.
ParaOrdnance P16-40 to 10mm
- Thread starter jakester
- Start date
Search for viescky (I think I spelt that right), he has done it and we had an Internet conversation about it. Basically you have the jest of it. I liked the idea so much I even manhandled P-16 and priced one, but I have yet to fulfill on it especially now that other things have gotten in my way like my S&W 610 that I acquired yesterday.
CastleBravo
New member
S&W 610 is a sweet revolver, isn't it? I loooooove mine.
Yeah, converting any .40S&W 1911 to 10mm is easy, IIRC it's just a chamber ream and stronger recoil setup (e.g. FLGR, shok buffer & 22-24lb spring). You would probalby want to have a GOOD gunsmith do it for you and make sure it is actually reliable before you get it back. Some Para-Ords are flaky on the reliability department to begin with.
Delta Elites aren't too bad price-wise; I've seen blue ones for as low as $550 and mine was reliable from the get-go. You could always get a .40S&W Kimber and convert it, too.
Yeah, converting any .40S&W 1911 to 10mm is easy, IIRC it's just a chamber ream and stronger recoil setup (e.g. FLGR, shok buffer & 22-24lb spring). You would probalby want to have a GOOD gunsmith do it for you and make sure it is actually reliable before you get it back. Some Para-Ords are flaky on the reliability department to begin with.
Delta Elites aren't too bad price-wise; I've seen blue ones for as low as $550 and mine was reliable from the get-go. You could always get a .40S&W Kimber and convert it, too.
I got a Bar-Sto 10mm barrel, gave it to a pistolsmith with my P-16 and said, "Make it run." He did, I'm glad, it works.
He tweaked the mags.
I have only shot 100 rds, so far, but no ftf's.
I put in a 24# spring, but the 'smith thinks I could get by with a lighter spring.
HTH
Walt
He tweaked the mags.
I have only shot 100 rds, so far, but no ftf's.
I put in a 24# spring, but the 'smith thinks I could get by with a lighter spring.
HTH
Walt
Pricing a Para
Went to my local dealer and found his prices quite appealing! Standard P16-40 - $519 and Limited P16-40 - $689. I already ordered a Witness 10mm from another dealer and trying to cancel that order now in favor of the Para.
Please, anyone else with a converted 40S&W 1911. Want about costs for the conversion?
Thanks for the feedback.
Jakester
Went to my local dealer and found his prices quite appealing! Standard P16-40 - $519 and Limited P16-40 - $689. I already ordered a Witness 10mm from another dealer and trying to cancel that order now in favor of the Para.
Please, anyone else with a converted 40S&W 1911. Want about costs for the conversion?
Thanks for the feedback.
Jakester
Brian Busch
New member
All you really need to do is buy a 22lb Wolff recoil spring and ream the barrel out to 10mm. Shouldn't cost more than $20-30.
If you go the new 10mm barrel route, it will cost $100-200 for the barrel (depending on who you buy from), $7 for a recoil spring and fitting costs. I'd say $250.
If you go the new 10mm barrel route, it will cost $100-200 for the barrel (depending on who you buy from), $7 for a recoil spring and fitting costs. I'd say $250.
Hi all.
I'd say to get another barrel, that way you'd have both calibers to blast through the pistol. And then you can get a .357 Sig barrel down the line to!
I went with an Ed Brown barrel (wanted to compare quality to my existing 400 CorBon barrel for my P12 and Ed Brown was a faster delivery time), which cost me $210.
Now Ed Brown barrels are called drop in, but there was a bit more metal on the barrel then I wanted to hack off (I could see me shaving a lug off!), so I sent the pistol to Ed Brown to be fitted up, and that was $75 bux. I sent the pistol on a Thurdsay morning and it was back the following Tuesday.
Figure with s/h and springs I put in about another $60 bux. So that's about $350 total for the barrel. IHMO it was $ well spent.
The 10mm Ed Brown barrel is quite accurate and extremely tight in my duo tone P16. As compared to the BarSto 400 CB, the fit job done by Ed Brown (Bar Sto did the fitting on my P12) is just a shade tighter. Both pistols are extremely accurate needless to say!
FWIW, I don't recall BarSto charging me for the fitting of the barrel, but that was when they offered the drop in and fitted barrel selection--I believe now BarSto is only offering fitted barrels. I could be wrong about that though.
I started out with a 26lb recoil spring (the P16 still sports the firing pin spring that came with the 26lb spring), but that rated spring was causing serious bullet set back in the 155gr Georgia Arms Gold Dot (one of the hotter loadings currently available) so I switched down to the 24lb recoil spring--which has only minor bullet setback problems with the Georgia Arms loading btw.
I might drop down to the 22lb spring, I dunno. I will say that I did not notice a marked amount of recoil increase when stepping down from the 26lb to the 24lb spring.
That 10mm Witness, compact in Wonder finish is calling my name. How about anyone else?
Derek
I'd say to get another barrel, that way you'd have both calibers to blast through the pistol. And then you can get a .357 Sig barrel down the line to!
I went with an Ed Brown barrel (wanted to compare quality to my existing 400 CorBon barrel for my P12 and Ed Brown was a faster delivery time), which cost me $210.
Now Ed Brown barrels are called drop in, but there was a bit more metal on the barrel then I wanted to hack off (I could see me shaving a lug off!), so I sent the pistol to Ed Brown to be fitted up, and that was $75 bux. I sent the pistol on a Thurdsay morning and it was back the following Tuesday.
Figure with s/h and springs I put in about another $60 bux. So that's about $350 total for the barrel. IHMO it was $ well spent.
The 10mm Ed Brown barrel is quite accurate and extremely tight in my duo tone P16. As compared to the BarSto 400 CB, the fit job done by Ed Brown (Bar Sto did the fitting on my P12) is just a shade tighter. Both pistols are extremely accurate needless to say!
FWIW, I don't recall BarSto charging me for the fitting of the barrel, but that was when they offered the drop in and fitted barrel selection--I believe now BarSto is only offering fitted barrels. I could be wrong about that though.
I started out with a 26lb recoil spring (the P16 still sports the firing pin spring that came with the 26lb spring), but that rated spring was causing serious bullet set back in the 155gr Georgia Arms Gold Dot (one of the hotter loadings currently available) so I switched down to the 24lb recoil spring--which has only minor bullet setback problems with the Georgia Arms loading btw.
I might drop down to the 22lb spring, I dunno. I will say that I did not notice a marked amount of recoil increase when stepping down from the 26lb to the 24lb spring.
That 10mm Witness, compact in Wonder finish is calling my name. How about anyone else?
Derek
How about magazines?
I gather the 40S&W magazines will work with 10mm, or I have a new HiCap Single Shot 10mm. Ha! Any modification to the magazine (lips/followers) necessary for reliable feeding? Other than the extra power mag spring?
Thanks for the information. I'll let "ya'll" know if I actually get through this, or if I take the simpler Witness 10mm route.
Thanks again.
I gather the 40S&W magazines will work with 10mm, or I have a new HiCap Single Shot 10mm. Ha! Any modification to the magazine (lips/followers) necessary for reliable feeding? Other than the extra power mag spring?
Thanks for the information. I'll let "ya'll" know if I actually get through this, or if I take the simpler Witness 10mm route.
Thanks again.
CastleBravo
New member
1911 magazines for .40S&W and 10mm are identical. Any tweaking of the P16-40 mags is because Para-Ord mags in general can be kind of flaky from a reliability point of view.
Alaska Roy
New member
10mm Conversions- jtduncan???
Umm, what chamber/headspace problems are you refering to?
I own both a Para Ord 10mm conversion (gunsmith kit reciever w/opened 38 super slide) and a H&K USP-40 that's been altered to fire 10mm using the same Para Ord mags. Both are extremely accurate and as reliable as Timex. Roy
Umm, what chamber/headspace problems are you refering to?
I own both a Para Ord 10mm conversion (gunsmith kit reciever w/opened 38 super slide) and a H&K USP-40 that's been altered to fire 10mm using the same Para Ord mags. Both are extremely accurate and as reliable as Timex. Roy
I have a "Clark 6 inch Chrom-molly National Match Barrel". It is a ramped 10mm that is oversized for fitting. It can be cut down for 5" use or threaded for a comp. It is new, in the package. I'll sell it for $100 plus shipping. E-mail me if your interested.
PS: This was for a project like you all are discussing that never got off the ground because the two custom pistolsmiths I used both quit within six months of each other. I quit building custom 1911s too.
PS: This was for a project like you all are discussing that never got off the ground because the two custom pistolsmiths I used both quit within six months of each other. I quit building custom 1911s too.
Preparing for the 10mm Project
Well, I did it....cancelled the Witness 10mm order in favor of try a ParaOrd P16-40 conversion. Will have to move the Witness to a later purchase. Anyone have a source other than ParaOrd for 40 mags. As usual, everyone carries 45 & 9mm mags, but not 10/40 mags. Haven't decided if I'll use the original barrel or purchase a new one already in 10mm.
Well, I did it....cancelled the Witness 10mm order in favor of try a ParaOrd P16-40 conversion. Will have to move the Witness to a later purchase. Anyone have a source other than ParaOrd for 40 mags. As usual, everyone carries 45 & 9mm mags, but not 10/40 mags. Haven't decided if I'll use the original barrel or purchase a new one already in 10mm.
Alaska Roy
New member
Para Ord P-16 Mags
When you recieve the gun there shouldbe a coupon for 2 xtra mags @ about $60.00 ea or if you're an IPSC member up to four xrtras. Para Ord custom shop online offers new replacement hicap mag bodies for around $40.00 ea. Just in case you need to replace a "damaged" mag body..Roy
When you recieve the gun there shouldbe a coupon for 2 xtra mags @ about $60.00 ea or if you're an IPSC member up to four xrtras. Para Ord custom shop online offers new replacement hicap mag bodies for around $40.00 ea. Just in case you need to replace a "damaged" mag body..Roy
I don't think that a 2500psi pressure increase (from 40S&W to 10mm) would amount to much of a threat to the frame. With a increase in recoil spring (P16 has a standard 18lb I believe) to 22/24lbs, there should be little frame battering. And consider that the .357 Sig is operating at 40k psi, I'd not worry about the frame.
Mags can be had from a couple of places. Check out www.practicalshooting.com. I picked up 2 nickel +2 mags from Jack Norris at $70 a piece.
Alaska Roy, tell me about that HK conversion please!
Derek
Mags can be had from a couple of places. Check out www.practicalshooting.com. I picked up 2 nickel +2 mags from Jack Norris at $70 a piece.
Alaska Roy, tell me about that HK conversion please!
Derek
Roy:
I can see a conversion from 38Super to 10mm but 40SW to 10mm is a no no if you want the gun to last the long term battering even with oversprung springs.
Let me or MCNETT from GlockTalk send you some of our 10mm hunting loads for that USP and I'd like you to run a case through it.
Kind of like a sexual reassignment surgery, why?
Can versus should . . .
I can see a conversion from 38Super to 10mm but 40SW to 10mm is a no no if you want the gun to last the long term battering even with oversprung springs.
Let me or MCNETT from GlockTalk send you some of our 10mm hunting loads for that USP and I'd like you to run a case through it.
Kind of like a sexual reassignment surgery, why?
Can versus should . . .
Alaska Roy
New member
jtduncan-??
Opinions are we we all wade through the various sites eh?
I an curious about the "hunting" loads you mentioned, what is it you hunt with a 10mm?
In my load development with the 10mm I've settled on AA-9 and ran "proof loads" in the early Para Ord prototype of 200s@1400fps from the five inch unsupported barrel without any case bulging as is common in the Glock 20s ( I have one also) then installed Nowlan full supported barrel. The H&K barrel being only 4in as opposed to the Glocks 4.5 does reduce velocity somewhat but not enough to worry about IMO.
Defining long term can be tricky don't you think? It's a rare shooter that fires over a thousand rounds a year and an even rarer shooter that only fires "hunting loads" exclusively.
My H&K conversion had a bit over 5K through it now with over 2K of the "hunting loads" used.
BTW, what were you refering to about headspace and chamber??
viesczy, the conversion details are on site somewhere. The USP-40 was rechambered and the ejection port opened then the mag catch was replaced with the steel USP-45 model and Para Ord P-16 mags were adapted. A good smith should be able to handle it in two hours shop time..Roy
Opinions are we we all wade through the various sites eh?
I an curious about the "hunting" loads you mentioned, what is it you hunt with a 10mm?
In my load development with the 10mm I've settled on AA-9 and ran "proof loads" in the early Para Ord prototype of 200s@1400fps from the five inch unsupported barrel without any case bulging as is common in the Glock 20s ( I have one also) then installed Nowlan full supported barrel. The H&K barrel being only 4in as opposed to the Glocks 4.5 does reduce velocity somewhat but not enough to worry about IMO.
Defining long term can be tricky don't you think? It's a rare shooter that fires over a thousand rounds a year and an even rarer shooter that only fires "hunting loads" exclusively.
My H&K conversion had a bit over 5K through it now with over 2K of the "hunting loads" used.
BTW, what were you refering to about headspace and chamber??
viesczy, the conversion details are on site somewhere. The USP-40 was rechambered and the ejection port opened then the mag catch was replaced with the steel USP-45 model and Para Ord P-16 mags were adapted. A good smith should be able to handle it in two hours shop time..Roy