Paranoia and the Police State

redhawk41

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New York apologises after Britons seized in security scare

Gary Younge in New York
Wednesday July 27, 2005
The Guardian

New York's mayor, Michael Bloomberg, has apologised to a group of British tourists after armed police swarmed on to an open-top sightseeing bus, handcuffed them and forced them to kneel on Broadway.

The five Sikh tourists from Birmingham were ordered off the bus on Sunday with their hands bound behind their backs after a tour company employee called police to report that they seemed suspicious.

The police cordoned off the block for 90 minutes, ordered all 60 passengers off the bus, and searched their belongings and then their bodies. The five men were then identified by the employee and cuffed.
New York has been on heightened alert since the London bombings and police recently started checking bags in the subway.

Mr Bloomberg advised New Yorkers to use common sense when reporting anything suspect and to avoid profiling people.

"It turned out that these people did not present any threat whatsoever," he said.

"The police, who have to react in this day and age and take evidence at face value, had a show of force that probably doesn't make good reading in the paper.

"It's a shame, and I certainly apologise on behalf of the city of New York."

The tour bus company, Gray Line, stood by its supervisor. "We have trained our employees to report suspicious activity to the police," its spokesman, David Chien, said. "That is all we did."

After the terrorist attacks of September 11 more than 400 Sikhs were attacked across the country, claims Amardeep Singh, legal director of the Sikh coalition in New York.

He said reports "across the board" showed Sikhs were being confused with Arabs and other Muslims.

One of the tourists, who have since left New York, said the incident had not spoilt his time in the US.

"These things happen, don't they," the 39-year-old man, who gave his name as Jas, told the Daily News. "We have no hard feelings."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1536635,00.html
 
Well, of course they were suspicious. They were swarthy, and they wore beards and turbans!

Complaining about racial profiling...what kind of political correctness is this? Don't you know that just about all terror attacks in the last ten years were committed by swarthy men with beards?

:rolleyes:
 
Flight diverted due to suspicious behavior
3 men questioned, released after L.A.-to-London flight diverted to Boston

Updated: 2:04 p.m. ET July 26, 2005

WASHINGTON - A flight from Los Angeles to London was diverted to Boston early Tuesday because three Pakistani passengers were acting suspiciously, but nothing amiss was found and the three were released after questioning, authorities said.

United Airlines Flight 934 landed in Boston shortly before 3 a.m., Logan Airport spokesman Phil Orlandella said.

The three Pakistani men were taken into custody and questioned after other passengers complained that they were moving about the cabin, FBI spokeswoman Gail Marcinkiewicz said.

“Some of the individuals were in first class and another was in coach,” and they were walking between the two sections, she said.

The three passengers, who were said to be traveling for business but were not identified, were later released and no charges were filed.

Flight 934 took off from Logan Airport at 11:47 a.m., said Jeff Green, a spokesman for United Airlines.

The three Pakistani passengers were placed on a separate flight to London’s Heathrow Airport, he said.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8710689/
 
LOL....

I have to admit some of my fellow Americans give me a chuckle sometimes.

When we were deployed overseas I noticed a tendency of some of my fellow citizens to assume some folks dont speak english.

It was something along the lines of the old western movies where the guy comes up and says in a very loud voice How! My name is John..lol

I would just chuckle and shake my head.

I wonder when a group of Maori come to New York if they will be reported as suspicious...lol

In fact I have a turban and several Uzbek hats maybe I should wear one on my next flight :eek:
 
Complaining about racial profiling...
what profiling? all the passengers were detained and searched because someone felt 'uncomfortable'.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177064

"Excuse me, that man over there wearing the firearm on his hip is making me 'uncomfortable'. I realise that he is doing nothing wrong, but the television has taught me to associate guns with violent criminals. Please do something to alleviate my suffering."

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
Mr Bloomberg advised New Yorkers to use common sense when reporting anything suspect and to avoid profiling people.
Interesting that it's Bloomberg's people who did the searching, but he intimates the blame falls on the bus driver....and that after his own office raised the fear level of public travelers in NYC by insisting on "Freedom Checks" for all mass transit vehicles and asked for citizens to report suspicious activity.

Talk about "throwing the guy under the bus"! NYC will claim immunity for this incident; but I'm pretty certain the Sightseeing Company will be under Sikh Ownership this time next year.

The police, who have to react in this day and age and take evidence at face value, had a show of force
No kidding, Michael? Are we to assume that you now expect NY Cops to search and detain everyone whom a third person reports as "suspicious".
 
Look on the bright side, Rich.

They could have been running.

Being serious (fleetingly), this is the probably where Teh Terroristses get their actual win. Not by killing people - even in their thousands. Not by the economic damage done by their cowardly back-stabbing attacks. But by engendering mistrust and fear amongst normal people, and the knock-on mistrust of authority.
 
Sikhs in my personal experience are great warrior. I would consider them on our side in the WOT. There are even Pugharee wearing members of the NYPD. I remember a Orthodox Jew deputy sheriff in New Jersey. We cannot go by the outside looks, it is a poor tool. I am not a typical in dress, manners or looks westerner myself. I have been singled out myself. Standing in your underwear while some TSA JBT goes through your kit is a bit demeaning. The rumour mills work well but, the net spreads these tales faster. Can you spell Sepoy rebellion?
 
The sepoy mutiny???

I don't recall reading anything in the article about the men in question being forced to tear open paper rifle cartriges, with their mouths, that had been greased with beef tallow. No wonder they looked suspicious. :D
 
The point is misinformation. Muslims were told that pig bones were ground into their flour and Hindus were told that cow bones were ground into theirs. Similar stories were circulated regarding the greased Enfield cartridge packs. AFAIK, goat tallow and wax was the waterproofing. The misinformation program worked well then. There was no Snopes.com. These types of incidents are too common. Terrorists are schooled in western dress and misbehaviour. A blissninny went into a snit over dark men in strange clothing and their actions. Stupidity and fear combined to eliminate common sense. Meerut jail was a good example.
 
20 out of 20 people who took down the WTC and Pentagon were young middle eastern men, so paying a little teeny bit more attention to them aint profiling its being mildly observant.E
 
I am the bane of modern, enlightened society

20 out of 20 people who took down the WTC and Pentagon were young middle eastern men, so paying a little teeny bit more attention to them aint profiling its being mildly observant.

Sounds reasonable to me...

Maybe the three Pakisani guys on the plane should use some common sense and not be wandering around for no apparent reason. And maybe, just maybe they might want to think about speaking English.

If I were on a flight and three Pakistani guys were up wandering around the plane yammering to each other in $hit$krit, I'd be worried too.

As the tee shirt says: Welcome to America. NOW SPEAK ENGLISH.

Yes, I realize I'm xenophobic, homophobic, homeboyphobic, paranoid, schizoaffectively disordered, straight, white, male, married, unenlightened, unlearned, proconstitution and progun. I even own a Bible, have beer in the refrigerator, have a 12ga. Remington 870 in the bedroom closet and have a friend who lives in Tennessee.

If that bothers you, GFY! :D :D :D
 
Yes, I realize I'm xenophobic, homophobic, homeboyphobic, paranoid, schizoaffectively disordered, straight, white, male, married, unenlightened, unlearned, proconstitution and progun. I even own a Bible, have beer in the refrigerator, have a 12ga. Remington 870 in the bedroom closet and have a friend who lives in Tennessee.
Hmmmm, you fit Tim McVeigh's profile pretty closely; Eric Robert Rudolph's, too. Careful what you ask for. There's plenty of Wars on [Nouns] to go around.
Rich
 
I hate to say this but due to what we know, that all of the terrorist so far (not including mcveigh and what's his name) were from the middle east, it would be a lie to say that people don't give second looks or that they do profile.

When a impala knows that there are lions around, they keep an eye on them. They don't do the PC thing and ignore the lion because that would be profiling, they keep an eye on them for survival.

I know that it seems wrong to do this, to profile, but we are in a fight for our lives whether we like it or not. Sure, we haven't had any attacks here like in Iraq and London but they are coming, with our borders being so porous it's only a matter of time. Even for us that live in smaller areas, we are not immune.

I don't know if my comments above are out of line due to it seems that another post was removed that was along the same lines. If it is out of line, please remove. It won't bother me, I've been yelled at for saying things that are on everyone's mind but are too afraid to say it.

As for the majority of the people that are Muslims, they are peace loving people that just wish to have a good life, follow their god, and make the best of life. The same with the people that follow other gods. It's only a slight minority that is making everyone else look bad.

To put everything into prospective, the Christians were looked badly looked upon, feared, and hated in the times of the crusades, inquistions(sp), and presently the philps (or whatever that hate mongers name is that pickets funerals and says "God hates gays" (which is wrong because hate is a sin and God doesn't sin)).

This is a different war. The enemy is not clearly defined by uniforms. The enemy are people that walk among us, some actually in high positions here and elsewhere (professions that are highly regarded). So, since the enemy cannot be defined and singled out, we have to be distrustful of everyone of this faith, even if we won't admit to feeling this way. I hate the fact that I get nervous around these people, 99% being just as American and love their country the same as I, it's that 1% that will end up killing you but you can't know who that 1% may be.

Here in Oregon, many of the terrorist have been traced back to here :eek: , trying to set up camps and training grounds. Oregon is a very sparsely-populated state by many standards with the exception of Portland. Yet we've had more terrorist linked back to this state than any other. And the Portland six were talking about shooting up schools and other soft targets.

Maybe I've gone too far in this conversation. I'm just pointing out what most people are thinking but wish to be PC and thus ignore any dangers that may exist around them.

Again, if I am out of line, please delete the post and I will shut up.

Wayne
 
Hmmmm, you fit Tim McVeigh's profile pretty closely; Eric Robert Rudolph's, too. Careful what you ask for. There's plenty of Wars on [Nouns] to go around.

My comments were intended for entertainment purposes only. Comparing me to McVeigh and Rudolph was a cheap shot and was really not necessary.
 
PG-
I wasn't "comparing" you and truly apologize if that's your read. I was pointing up just how dangerous government profiling of ***any*** group is. Once it becomes acceptable practice ("because there's a War on"), many of us can expect a turn in the box.

Again, apologies if I wasn't clear.
Rich
 
The problem is that the profile exists. It's not something a bunch of wild eyed rednecks came up with it was defined by the terrorists themselves. The vast majority of muslims are not terrorists, but it seems the vast majority of terrorists are , or at least claim to be muslims. I just don't see any sense in strip searching grandma and just standing by while hassan asswad gets on the plane because we are afraid of offending him. E
 
I wasn't "comparing" you and truly apologize if that's your read. I was pointing up just how dangerous government profiling of ***any*** group is. Once it becomes acceptable practice ("because there's a War on"), many of us can expect a turn in the box.

Apology accepted, Rich.

Now, on to the issue of profiling. Thanks to the efforts of the politically correct segment of academia, the news media and other "beacons of enlightenment" in our culture, profiling has come to be viewed as something that is as vile and malevolent as being a member of the Ku Klux Klan. The reality is that profiling is nowhere near that extreme, ugly and despicable.

Profiling does not equal rounding up those of middle eastern heritage and throwing them into an internment camp in the desert, as was done to the Japanese during WWII; it does not equal stopping them on the street to be searched, groped, questioned and humiliated in view of others, as were the Jews prior to being rounded up and shipped to the extermination camps of Nazi Germany.

Profiling is a tool that is based upon the knowledge we have at hand. History cannot be denied: Since the 1972 Olympics, 99% plus of terrorist attacks have been commited by Muslim men between the ages of 18 and 40 of middle eastern heritage. Women fitting the above demographic have also participated, usually as suicide bombers. If we ignore these facts, we ignore them at the cost of our own blood and lives, plain and simple.

How much spilling of innocent blood and loss of innocent life must we abide in the name of tolerance? Let's make it personal: How many of your loved ones are you willing to carry to their graves in the name of political correctness?? My answer is - not one.

The list of things I am willing to die for is pretty short; sorry, but political correctness didn't make the list.

The jihad that has been visited upon us by Muslim extremists and their collaborators is a war that has no boundaries - it is a war where no act of savagery is off limits. We did not start this war, nor did we set the rules of engagement, of which there are none. It is insanity for us to fight this war withone hand tied behind our backs and one eye taped shut. To do so will cost innocent people their lives, plain and simple.

We can watch Muslim men between the ages of 18 and 40 closely without infringing on their rights as American citizens; if the men in question are not American citizens, they demand even closer scrutiny. To turn a blind eye to the facts of history when American blood is the prize the terrorists seek is sheer insanity.

We Americans are a tolerant people - let's just make sure we don't tolerate ourselves into extinction. There is no glory in dying for political correctness.
 
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