Parachuting Behind Enemy Lines?? ... Part II

B

Bud Helms

Senior Member
I missed Part I. I go with what ArmySon said AND what Christopher II said. I'd want a Ruger MkII that was REAL quiet with a 50 rnd pack of ammo and one spare mag. I'd use the issue M9 to field strip on the run and throw at the bad guys, IF they got on my trail. If not, I'd field strip it and bury the pieces far apart. LOUD POS!

'Never did figure that out ... I'm supposed to E&E and they give me a full-sized Berretta M9. Go figure. An extra battery for my radio would be a lot more useful.
 
Those of you who are choosing the silenced .22s are tactically correct, but I think you need to realize what happened here. I think Doc Holliday started telling a story and his imagination got the best of him, convoluting his basic question. Doc simply wants to know which pistol we think is inherently more reliable NIB, the 1911 or the Glock.

That being said, what's the deal with those of you who can't give the man a real answer? I know everybody likes to plug their personal favorites, but he wants to know handgun "A" or handgun "B," not "C" or "D" or "E." I'm not knocking anyone's "C,D,E," but let's humor old Doc and play by his rules. I thought the basic underlying question was a good one!
 
For all posting, I hope you've read my admittedly screwey scenario I set up in part one.

My intention was to gauge how much trust you'd have on the RELIABILITY of the weapon. And your choice of caliber.

(though I admit the way in which some of you planned your return has been enlightening)

Having said no submachine guns, I didn't think it necessary to add, no handguns that can be converted to full autos(B93, Uzi etc.)

My mistake. Should also have said no supressors, though most who voted for the HK Mark 23(aka .45 on steroids)DID pick up on it and added "however if supressors are out, I'd go with...

However as to the "competent shooter you trust absolutely" putting 50 rounds and cleaning it---well,that's not QUITE fresh out of the box, is it? George makes a point of saying he wouldn't trust ANY gun before 200 rounds--in another thread many 1911 aficionados made 500 the bare minimum..

Tell you what, let's compromise slightly, 100
rounds before the "It's Ok" note is delivered to you...

Remember gang, we're talking about reliability from mfg. here, including those who sell top of the line $$$$$!
 
Originally posted by Sub MOA: (edited) <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>... Doc simply wants to know which pistol we think is inherently more reliable NIB, the 1911 or the Glock.[/quote]Another Glock vs 1911 thread? Is that what this is all about Doc?
 
sensop: NO! It's about which handgun, revolvers included, among the hundreds we mention in this forum you'd REALLY bet on if...Ah, well, look up the original and admittedly far-fetched scenario of the original post.

I went overboard setting up a hypothetical situation in order to ask for a reality check on the issue of reliability.


The scenario was CLOSE to 'fresh out of the box', but I didn't want to set it up that the gun had never been fired, even once. THAT would have been a wee too farfetched, to have solicited any meaningful opinions from you.


Sorry if it sounded as if it was CONFINED to merely another 'Glock vs 1911' or '9mm vs .45'

(et al= "and all the others." Should have stuck to English.)



[This message has been edited by DocHolliday (edited July 05, 2000).]
 
Based on personal experience, make mine any of the classic SIGs. I have -- three times -- taken a brand-new SIG to a week-long training course. (Yes, I have had a backup with me. <g> ) Each time, no hiccups of any kind whatsoever.* In fact, I have never had a hiccup with any SIG I've owned, some of which have had alot of rounds through them. These are the only handguns I've never had any problems with, and I'd take your 50-rd challenge with any one of the "classic" SIGs.

*I did have a series of ignition failures with PMC ammo back in 1998, which were clearly an ammo problem; others were having the same problem with this ammo at the same time in various other makes of pistols -- so I don't charge that fault to the pistols.
 
Sorry all you TFLers and Doc if I stepped on any toes. I honestly did not notice or pay attention to the "et al" in the original post (guess I was too wrapped up in the scenario!).
 
S&W 586, hard to beat a revolver for reliability. If I had to have an auto, Glock 17. Glocks are the most reliable that I have fired. Plus I shoot a Glock better than most other handguns, and I like 9mm.

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Beware the three D's: The dumb, drunk, and deranged. Chadintex@hotmail.com
 
I posted this in #1, but might as well tell all of you who missed it. I would go with the Colt 1911. It has served this country for many many years. It was designed by a firearms master. Who designed some of the best guns ever, the 1911 included. I do not have anything agianst the Glock at all. But, it has not defended my country and its freedom for 70 years. But the Glock is a great gun. I am not saying that its not.
 
Never shot a Glock so I'd have to go with what I know. Can't imagine myself missing with one of my 1911s. Accuracy,power and reliability=supreme confidance!
Ronin :)

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NRA/GOA/GOTF
Vote!!
 
I'm a 1911 guy, but in the senario that you describe, I think that I would take a Glock 34. I think a 1911 is a better pistol, but I don't think I would trust one straight out of the box (100 rounds is not enough for me to trust it) as much as I would a Glock.

I almost can't believe I said that. :o

David

PS - I love my Kimbers; I love my Kimbers; I love.....

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"There are people who do not mind the fact that O.J. Simpson walks free. There are people who do not mind the fact that Lon Horiuchi is not only not punished for his atrocity at Ruby Ridge, but he continues on the public payroll. There are those who know who killed Vince Foster, but are not bothered by the fact that the subject has been dropped officially. I mind those things. Do you?" - Jeff Cooper
 
This is a tough one.

Personally I shoot 1911s the best, and they are my favorite handgun, but I shot mine 200 times before I started to carry it. Hmmm...

But my Springfield has never malfunctioned. However the rear sight loosened up at about 120 rounds. Apparently it wasn't real tightly screwed in at the factory.

If the guy doing the first 100 rounds was somebody that I really trusted then I would have to go with a SA loaded in stainless (favorite gun). If not then I would probably go with a Glock 21 or a Beretta 96 BM.
 
Does something like a scoped Contender pervert the original question too much? One of those in, say, .223 would be a nice choice. Make it .44 Magnum if I've got to stick to pistol calibers.

Otherwise, I'd rather have a Taurus PT-92. If I'm going to die right after I pull the trigger, I'd at least like to do it with an old friend. Who knows? Comfort might buy me my life if silence fails.

I feel perfectly comfortable with lots of pistols...against other folks with pistols. This is almost like being asked which knife I'd like to take to the gunfight, though.

Steve
 
What do you guys have against Berettas?

When you pull the trigger, they fire.

Every single time.

Make mine a 92 of any flavor woth hi-caps a'plenty...

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"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with Army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of constitutional privilege." Wilson vs. State, Ark. 1878
 
Well, I like the MK23 with the suppressor, but you did say no suppressors...

So I go with its little cousin the USP45. They have been (IMHO) far more reliable out of the box than the 1911's have been and they are infamously durable even when mightily abused and they just seem "sturdier" to me than the Glocks do.

Noise is almost irrelevant to me if I cant go suppressed. Rather have a decent amount (12rnds) of a large caliber pistol round then an irrelevant amount of lesser noise that a 380 or 32 would give me. And 22 is just not big enough for me to bet my life on. Im not that great of a shooter.

J.T.
 
Is this silly or what? You go with what you are issued and/or what is appropriate to the mission. Besides, parachuting "behind enemy lines" is old hat and has been relegated to video games.

I know a real CIA "spook" who was sent into Rumania while the iron curtain was still very much iron. He flew into Bucharest on an Aeroflot flight from Moscow, complete with papers identifying him as an employee of the Rumanian Ministry of Agriculture. Much more comfortable than parachuting in or floating down the Danube on a raft. I believed his story, but I think he did stretch the truth when he said that Aeroflot served worse meals than Pan Am.

Jim
 
Jim: Worse meals than Pan Am? No wonder they lost the cold war. In any case, you've got a choice of handgun and ammo, it's not what you're issued.

A competent shooter puts 50 (allright 100 max) rounds and leaves you a brief note "it's ok". What gun and what ammo would you choose? Aw hell, if anyone's interested, look up Thread 1., 7/4, with over 50 replies and only 3 choosing the 1911, which was somewhat surprising to me.

Hallfast: If George said S&W, I'm sure JMB's ghost absolves you of all sins :)

Glocks seem beloved, Sigs come in second and HK's are no slouch when it comes to (almost) FOB reliability, even with otherwise loyal 1911 fans.

Hmm...
 
Read somewhere that the USArmy also used the Steyr GB since it was not ammo sensitive. I would choose a G19(followed by CZ,HP,Sig,HK,Beretta). I think the Ruger P series are pretty durable.
 
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