Paper Cartridge
- Thread starter milcol
- Start date
Yea used them for years, Dixie Gun Works use to sell a pamplet on how to make and roll your own, even went into detail on how to nitrate your own papers; it works ok if speed is an issue or you don't want to carry a lot of stuff into the field outside of that just load the traditional way you will get higher velocity and better accuracy IMO.
g.willikers
New member
On the advice of this forum, I tried using tea bags.
They work real well, too.
Surprisingly flammable and the tea can still be used for a pick me up.
They work real well, too.
Surprisingly flammable and the tea can still be used for a pick me up.
Been there, done that. KNO3 soaked cigarette papers glued to ball or bullet. Still had occasional unburnt paper in chambers and inconsistent ignition. I kept tweezers real handy. So I started tearing open the cartridges to pour the powder into the chambers and ended up shooting the next 20,000 rounds by pouring from a flask, wadding and ramming the balls/bullets home. Usijng a flask takes a lot less time (need to factor in time to assemble cartridges) and ignition is infinitely more reliable.
The military pretty much used the combustible cartridges and nothing else. Millions were manufactured during the Civil War and I have yet to find any issued revolver flasks, etc. -the default being that nothing else but combustible cartridges were used.
There is a lot of misconceptions on this ammunition. The combustible case was NOT USED so the flash of the percussion cap could "BURN THROUGH" the case and explode the powder. Case in point is that this original ammunition used a TIN FOIL case. The burst of the percussion cap is powerful enough to break the back of the case and explode the powder.
The combustible aspect was to prevent any burning embers remaining in the chamber which would explode another round during the reloading. With the metal foil- the foil would not hold an ember so no problem but with paper or fish gut an ember may be held so chemicals were added to insure the case burnt up completely.
Today's cigarette paper works "PRETTY GOOD" but it will leave some residue. The original stuff had a better treated paper. SO.....if you use cigarette paper ALWAYS inspect the chamber before putting in another round.
WHAT ABOUT THE GUYS THAT HAVE TO TEAR OR BREAK OPEN THE BACK IN ORDER TO GET 100% IGNITION? They make their cartridges with a lot of paper folded and bunched up at the back. Use an isosceles trapezoid shape with a square tab on the lower base, the tab folded over the back so only a single layer of paper is in that area. Use a glue stick to hold all together.
The original stuff used conical bullets many with a rebate around the base into which the case fit- Dixie did/or may still sell that style. 15- 18 gr. was the typical charge. The small charge was because the long conical reduced available space.
There is a lot of misconceptions on this ammunition. The combustible case was NOT USED so the flash of the percussion cap could "BURN THROUGH" the case and explode the powder. Case in point is that this original ammunition used a TIN FOIL case. The burst of the percussion cap is powerful enough to break the back of the case and explode the powder.
The combustible aspect was to prevent any burning embers remaining in the chamber which would explode another round during the reloading. With the metal foil- the foil would not hold an ember so no problem but with paper or fish gut an ember may be held so chemicals were added to insure the case burnt up completely.
Today's cigarette paper works "PRETTY GOOD" but it will leave some residue. The original stuff had a better treated paper. SO.....if you use cigarette paper ALWAYS inspect the chamber before putting in another round.
WHAT ABOUT THE GUYS THAT HAVE TO TEAR OR BREAK OPEN THE BACK IN ORDER TO GET 100% IGNITION? They make their cartridges with a lot of paper folded and bunched up at the back. Use an isosceles trapezoid shape with a square tab on the lower base, the tab folded over the back so only a single layer of paper is in that area. Use a glue stick to hold all together.
The original stuff used conical bullets many with a rebate around the base into which the case fit- Dixie did/or may still sell that style. 15- 18 gr. was the typical charge. The small charge was because the long conical reduced available space.
DD4lifeusmc
New member
paper cartridge
Been making them for numerous years.
But mine are separate from the projectile.
With practice they are easy and work good.
Lot less work than nitrating your own paper.
You have to go buy the nitrate, buy the paper, cut it to size, soak it, dry it
then roll it.
The zig zags work just fine for me
Been making them for numerous years.
But mine are separate from the projectile.
With practice they are easy and work good.
Lot less work than nitrating your own paper.
You have to go buy the nitrate, buy the paper, cut it to size, soak it, dry it
then roll it.
The zig zags work just fine for me
They worked for me too. I just couldn't see the advantage when looking at the overall picture.
What may factor into this that hasn't been discussed is wads. If you use wads then its a very complicated business making a ball-wad-powder paper cartridge that has the wad's lube separated from the powder in the charge.
What may factor into this that hasn't been discussed is wads. If you use wads then its a very complicated business making a ball-wad-powder paper cartridge that has the wad's lube separated from the powder in the charge.
Using a ball with a paper cartridge is a bother, the conicals fit it and glue up better- at least for me...BUT....I personally think the whole paper cartridge thing is best left as an experience for "bonding" with the past. Try it at the range a time or two and then let it go. The combustibles don't provide much protection from a chain firing unless you fit in some sort of pre-lubed wad. The far better alternative if you want "field ammunition" in a small package is to make about 20 small paper tubes, closed on one end and a cap top for the other- these will be re-useable. Carry powder charges in them and store in an Altoids can. In this same can store the caps, wads and balls. Then you have really good loads and with the wads- safer to use.
I did the paper because I'm cheap but the plastic tubes would be the better. The MAIN THING is that the tubes (paper or plastic) are really a lot better than the combustible type cartridge. Loading both powder and ball at the same time obviously is a hazard if an ember is in the chamber- far better if you just poured in the charge. The combustibles are also fragile and subject to breaking while in a carrying container. Then with the tubes you can add pre-lubed wads which help ward off a chain firing.
That might be a problem if you loaded up with lubed wads and then carried the gun in that manner- I'm not certain on that- but I use lubed wads at the range on a regular basis without any troubles.
Question? I am not certain a lubed wad does or doesn't effect the powder in a loaded revolver if carried a long period of time. The answer may rest in the kind of lube used. The Civil War general Lee had the ends of his Colt 1851 sealed. It was red wax and since he had red sealing wax on his orders the thought is the same stuff was used to seal the ends of the chambers. The revolver was fired 7 years after he died and the gun may have never been fired since the War- so....loaded maybe 20 years and all six chambers fired ok. On the wads- Sam Colt had a cork wafer (wad) on the base of the conical on one of his early combustible cartridges and then dropped it. I know Elmer Keith used wads. He cut his from old Stetsons and lubed them in a 50/50 mix of tallow (rendered beef fat) and beeswax and I think he carried them that way.
Question? I am not certain a lubed wad does or doesn't effect the powder in a loaded revolver if carried a long period of time. The answer may rest in the kind of lube used. The Civil War general Lee had the ends of his Colt 1851 sealed. It was red wax and since he had red sealing wax on his orders the thought is the same stuff was used to seal the ends of the chambers. The revolver was fired 7 years after he died and the gun may have never been fired since the War- so....loaded maybe 20 years and all six chambers fired ok. On the wads- Sam Colt had a cork wafer (wad) on the base of the conical on one of his early combustible cartridges and then dropped it. I know Elmer Keith used wads. He cut his from old Stetsons and lubed them in a 50/50 mix of tallow (rendered beef fat) and beeswax and I think he carried them that way.
Have a .pdf how-to if anybody wants it. Uses regular copier/printer paper, as I recall. No chemicals involved.
Same .pdf has the how-to for making .577/450 brass out of 3/4" bar stock.
Soft rubbery plastic tubes will gum up your firearm. Paper get blown out with the shot. Plastic will melt and stick.
Same .pdf has the how-to for making .577/450 brass out of 3/4" bar stock.
Soft rubbery plastic tubes will gum up your firearm. Paper get blown out with the shot. Plastic will melt and stick.
No knowledge on whether R.E. fired the Colt during the War. He operated behind lines during the Mexican War (that is- eyeball to eyeball with the enemy) so he wasn't an armchair general. He might have fired the revolver time to time if he thought the integrity of the load might be getting too old- I just don't know.
On the paper or plastic tubes- I didn't explain correctly. The paper tubes are mini-speed loaders, they don't go into the chamber. You measure out a charge of powder and then put on the top part of the tube or plug it with a ball/conical. I have 100 of these paper tubes but only put about 20-25 in an Altoids can. In the same Altoids can I put 20 round balls, 20 loose wads, and a small plastic baggies bag of caps, plus a nipple wrench. To load, take the top/bullet off/out of the paper tube and pour the charge in the chamber, Then put the paper tube back in the Altoid can- to be reused.
On the Sam Colt "wad" used on an early combustible cartridge. If I recall from the patent it was thin and of cork. It must not have been necessary because he stopped using it.
You can use various patterns on the paper case. Sam Colt made an isosceles trapezoid. The top was wider than the base, the angles on the sides made the finished case tapered. The base had an attached round tab that was folded up over the back to close the back of the tube. I made a cardboard template like that and mark cigarette paper to the template pattern and then glue the sides and back trapdoor in place with a glue stick. The gummed edge of the cigarette paper is on top- on the inside. Put in the powder, then the bullet, then lick the cigarette paper and the moisture activates the glue and glues the case to the bullet.
On the paper or plastic tubes- I didn't explain correctly. The paper tubes are mini-speed loaders, they don't go into the chamber. You measure out a charge of powder and then put on the top part of the tube or plug it with a ball/conical. I have 100 of these paper tubes but only put about 20-25 in an Altoids can. In the same Altoids can I put 20 round balls, 20 loose wads, and a small plastic baggies bag of caps, plus a nipple wrench. To load, take the top/bullet off/out of the paper tube and pour the charge in the chamber, Then put the paper tube back in the Altoid can- to be reused.
On the Sam Colt "wad" used on an early combustible cartridge. If I recall from the patent it was thin and of cork. It must not have been necessary because he stopped using it.
You can use various patterns on the paper case. Sam Colt made an isosceles trapezoid. The top was wider than the base, the angles on the sides made the finished case tapered. The base had an attached round tab that was folded up over the back to close the back of the tube. I made a cardboard template like that and mark cigarette paper to the template pattern and then glue the sides and back trapdoor in place with a glue stick. The gummed edge of the cigarette paper is on top- on the inside. Put in the powder, then the bullet, then lick the cigarette paper and the moisture activates the glue and glues the case to the bullet.
maillemaker
New member
If you are interested in the history of authentic cartridges I highly recommend the 4-volume series Round Ball to Rimfire by Thomas. One of the volumes I believe is specifically dedicated to revolver ammunition.
Steve
Steve