PA Law on Shotgun Purchase?

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pjn003

New member
Hey guys,

Im at college now and really need to buy an 870 for trap shooting out here in PA. i have proper storage arranged but for some reason PA will not let me buy the gun because i live in colorado and we have different laws. THIS IS REDICULOUS.

Is there any way i can legally get a gun here? im so confused.
 
Hmm, have your parents buy a gun here in Colorado and then UPS or FEDEX or whatever mail you can ship firearms in to you? Or...someone else you trust. I can recommend a couple good shops to get a shotgun from here in the Denver/Frontrange area.

Going to bed, ill check-in in the morning.
 
Since 1968

Federal law has prohibited purchase of long guns (rifles and shotguns) from residents of states that do not border the state the purchase would be in. In your case, if you are a resident of a state that borders PA, then you could buy a shotgun in PA (as far as the Feds are concerned). Local laws may vary. Since you are not a resident of a state that borders PA, you cannot buy your shotgun in PA.

You could buy your shotgun in your home state (or one that borders it) and have it shipped to you in PA, best thing would be to go through a FFL dealer, that way all the laws will be obeyed.

Or, you could establish residency in PA, and once that is done, buy the gun there.

Having your parents (or someone else) buy the gun for you in your home state may be a problem, because of the issue of a "strawman purchase". However, Fed law does allow guns to be purchased as a gift for someone else. This can be a confusing area of the law, and it is best to follow an FFL dealer's advice. He has to know and follow the law (no matter how confusing) in order to stay in business. You can also check with the BATFE, their website might have the answer to your question.

I don't know anything about any laws that PA has that apply to your situation, you are on your own there. Sorry.

FYI, the federal laws cover buying from an FFL dealer. If your state (PA) allows it, you might be able to legally buy face to face from a private seller. Check the PA laws before you try it though, as each state is slightly different.

Good Luck.
 
When they asked for a photo ID, you gave them a PA license, right?

That's not going to work. License needs to match the state you're buying in.
 
FYI, the federal laws cover buying from an FFL dealer. If your state (PA) allows it, you might be able to legally buy face to face from a private seller.
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44 AMP is correct. Private sale of long guns/shot guns do not require an FFL dealer in PA. If you could find a private seller I know of no law that prohibits the sale.
 
Wow - a little bad info here. Lets set one thing straight - an unliscensed individual (non-FFL) cannot buy any firearm (long gun or handgun) from another unliscensed individual of another state. Thats federal law. FTF sales of long guns are legal in PA, but that only applies where both the buyer and the seller are from PA.

There is no federal law that prohibits an FFL from selling a long gun to an unliscensed individual of another state - regardless of whether its a neighboring/contiguous state or not. Federal law does require that the sale complies with the law of BOTH states. So a PA FFL can sell you a shotgun even though you're a citizen of CO if he is sure the sale complies with the law of both PA and CO. The problem, however, will be finding a local PA FFL who is going to feel comfortable enough with their knowledge of CO law to make the sale.
 
He's a resident of PA while at school for the purpose of buying a firearm there.

27 CFR 178.11: MEANING OF TERMS
An out-of-State college student may establish residence in a State by residing and maintaining a home in a college dormitory or in a
location off-campus during the school term.

ATF Rul. 80-21
"State of residence" is defined by regulation in 27 CFR 178.11 as the State in which an individual regularly resides or maintains a home. The regulation also provides an example of an individual who maintains a home in State X and a home in StateY. The individual regularly resides in State X except for the summer months and in State Y for the summer months of the year. The regulation states that during the time the individual actually resides in State X he is a resident of State X, and during the time he actually resides in State Y he is a resident of State Y. Applying the above example to out-of-State college students it is held, that during the time the students actually reside in a college dormitory or at an off-campus location they are considered residents of the State where the dormitory or off-campus home is located. During the time out-of-State college students actually reside in their home State they are considered residents of their home State.

[ATFB 1980-4 25]
 
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Here in Colorado, I have bought guns for people before. There is nothing illegal about buying a gun and then giving it to someone who could legally buy one themselves. Where they take it from there is up to them. Out of state or whatever.

It is also not the obligation of the purchaser to say whether or not the gun is being bought for them or as a gift to someone else. There is no registration of firearms in Colorado, so ownership can be dealt around like playing cards. Of course a person should be diligent not to give a firearm to a shady person, but buying for family, I would hope they aren't shady.
 
crazyivan. i dont think people can buy a gun for me because odviously i cant buy a gun for myself while im here in PA. that is the definition of a straw purchase. neither can i do a face to face purchase as im out of state. i guess my only optin is finding a dealer who will let me ship a gun from co to him.
 
As I said, it is not the business of the seller to concern himself with who the buyer gives the gun to.

But, you are coming back for Thanksgiving, right? Buy it then.

2 questions though:

Do you live on campus? If so, do they allow you to have a gun in your place of living, beit a dorm or whatever?

If you live in your own apartment or house you rent or whatever...you should be able to establish residency there. Take a copy of your rent bill to the dealer and just explain your situation. And, as said before...going to school there makes you a resident of PA.
 
Wow - a little bad info here. Lets set one thing straight - an unliscensed individual (non-FFL) cannot buy any firearm (long gun or handgun) from another unliscensed individual of another state.QUOTE]

Shaggy, are you sure about this? If this were so, it would make half of the auctions on all the gun auction sites illegal, and I don't think the sites would stand by and not shut them down. Private owners can sell to each other, they just have to be shipped to a FFL, where a transfer will take place with BG check, etc.

In PA, you can FTF sale a rifle or a shotgun but not a handgun. The only legal way for a handgun to be given to someone is through father to son or vice versa, or spouse to spouse, or from grandparent to grandchild and vice versa in all cases.

Any person legally allowed to own a firearm in a state may legally ship a firearm to any other state so long as the person there is legally able to own it, it just has to be received at an FFL. Unlicensed person however, cannot ship handguns.
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Oh, and it is not a straw purchase. A straw purchase is a purchase where you buy a gun for someone who legally cannot. Well, you are perfectly eligible to buy a gun in Colorado? Right? You are a resident of Colorado, right? So someone buying a gun for you in Colorado and giving it to you is legal, no matter where you are located in the United States.

Now, if you have a friend in PA buy you a shotgun there and give it to you, that is a different story.
 
He's a resident of PA by ATF ruling! It's not illegal for him to buy a gun in PA. He just can't find an FFL that's willing to do the deal when he flashes his CO DL. Don't take your CO DL to the dealer, use a passport and lease for ID and proof of residence. This is not brain surgery.
 
That is true. But the dumbazz dealers won't take his ID. Did you try using your CO DL in conjuction with your College ID? Take a copy of the federal statute outlining your residency and explain your position.
 
I already address that, use a passport for ID and a lease to show residency or get a PA carry license at your school address.
 
Shaggy, are you sure about this?
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Yes - see 18 USC 922(a)(5)

It shall be unlawful— for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides​

Private owners can sell to each other, they just have to be shipped to a FFL, where a transfer will take place with BG check, etc.
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Exactly, but the question I was addressing wasn't about a transaction through an FFL - it was with regard to a private sale across state lines.
 
He's a resident of PA by ATF ruling! It's not illegal for him to buy a gun in PA.
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His residency is immaterial if the sale is for a long gun and through an FFL. Whether he is a resident of PA or not, he can legally buy a long gun in PA...if he can find a dealer who feels comfortable enough to do the transaction. Similarly, as you said, he can present a ID to try and establish himself as a PA resident, but the same problem arises - finding a dealer who will feel comfortable enough with those forms of ID to do the transaction without a PA DL.

pjn002 - IM me if you're near Philly. I can recommend a reputable dealer who might do it on your CO DL.
 
Alright then

Exactly, but the question I was addressing wasn't about a transaction through an FFL - it was with regard to a private sale across state lines.
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OK, just so that's clear, I misunderstood your initial post.
 
I have a NC driver's licence. In order for me to buy a gun here in NY they ask to see a copy of my orders assigning me to Fort Drum. Does your university give you the equivelant of orders? Something to show you are enrolled there so you can get a P.O. box and stuff like that?
 
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