Alright. I've decided I want a P7, possibly a P7M8 but more probably a P7M13. I just want one. They seem very cool, and people here and elsewhere speak very highly of them. Anyway, my question is WHY does everyone like them so much? Give me specifics. What is it about this gun that drives people to own several of them?
P7
- Thread starter branrot
- Start date
Stephen A. Camp
Staff In Memoriam
Hello. The P7 series are neat little arms that work quite well under the vast majority of circumstances. When the squeeze-cocker's depressed, you have a single-action type pull that's on the light side. Dropping the gun or purposely releasing the squeeze-cocker renders the gun safe. In my experience with them, the P7s have proven utterly reliable with jacketed bullets in both standard and plus p loadings. The fixed sights are well regulated from the factory. Best.
Ragin Cajun
New member
Do a search for P7M8. There have been several threads on this fantastic gun.
Chipperman
New member
Search function is still disabled, Ragin Cajun
I do not have a P7 yet, but also want one badly.
Maybe Santa will be good to me
I do not have a P7 yet, but also want one badly.
Maybe Santa will be good to me
Why the P7 is my favorite carry gun.
Manual of arms
The squeeze cocker is the most obvious feature of this gun. It permits a very safe mode of carry (uncocked) yet is incredibly fast into action with a very natural squeeze of the grip. Once depressed, the squeeze cocker only needs light pressure to remain cocked. Relax your grip, the gun decocks and is safe. Very intuitiative and natural, only different from every gun out there.
The squeeze cocker also serves as the slide release. With the slide back, pop a fresh mag in and squeeze the cocker: the slide releases and the gun is cocked, ready to go. I continue to think this is one of the most sublime features of this gun. No shifting grips to hit the slide stop or using the weak hand thumb.
The slide release is easy to access when deliberately locking the slide back but totally unobtrusive, 100% flush and snag-free.
The gun field strips faster and easier than a SIG or Glock. Pop the mag, lock the slide back, verify empty and push the left side button to lift the slide up and off. With the M8 the firing pin assembly can be field stripped by slightly cocking the gun (again, verify empty) and push turning on the bushing at the rear of the slide out pops the firing pin/striker unit.
Ergonomics
The gun has a very (to me) natural grip angle. Raise the gun and I am on target. P7s and 1911s do this for me whereas Glocks and S&W revolvers tend to point high. I know this is a matter of individual fit, but it works for me.
The slide sits low to the frame, in part due to the lack of a tilting barrel locking mechanism. As a result the gun seems to recoil more in a straight line back versus flipping or twisting up. Helps keep the gun on target and don’t need a compensator or muzzle porting to do it. (the HK USP 45 Compact has a rather high flipping recoil motion). Again, this is an individual perception, but one that works for me.
The mag release of both the M series and PSP are ambidextrous. The M series can be released with either the thumb and/or the forefinger of the shooting hand. The European mag release is accessed by the weekhand thumb. I think this mag release gets a raw deal. With very little practice I find it very fast – note you do not have to press thumb and drag out the mag. Hit the release and keep your hand clear and the mag will pop out with a force similar to an M series.
Design
The gas retarded blowback action dampens recoil and the fixed barrel makes the gun very accurate.
The fluted chamber ensures extraction with the extractor insuring positive and consistent extraction. A nice feature, because one part that breaks on a lot of gun designs is the extractor. Loose the extractor on the P7 and you are still in the fight.
Polygonal rifling increases muzzle velocity and cleans up easier.
On the M series the extended trigger guard means most winter gloves will clear it. Alternatively, I have no problem with light winter gloves and the shorter trigger guard of the PSP.
Safety
Squeeze it, its cocked. Relax your grip, its uncocked. Again, very natural and so simple that you don’t really have to “learn” it. While this contributes greatly to gun safety, adherence to the four general safety rules is the most important.
Quality Craftmanship
This baby is built. In deference to SIG P series and HK USP pistols, this is the best made factory gun out there. Not only great materials (you just know that slide is special from the look and feel of that steel) and great finishing detail but you also get a bunch of little extras. Like the slide top is serrated, the ejection port is beveled, the mag well is beveled, the front and backstraps are lightly stippled and the sights are not cheesy plastic ala Glock and are ready for night sight tubes. Plus the gun is dehorned for hand comfort.
Variants and Preferences
I don’t care at all for the P7M10 in 40. That is one I do not own. A big heavy chunky pistol with a really stiff recoil spring. Seems like the gas retarded action is a bit light for 40 and HK had to make it up with slide weight and a heavy spring. The weight distribution of a P7M8 or PSP is already a little top grip heavy, and the M10 makes it even worse. A downright unwieldy gun.
The P7M13, with its double stack mag is a bit chunky in the grip for me. Thick and straight like a brick, not at all like the curvaceous Browning High Power. Preban mags are REAL expensive - ~$125 each.
The P7M8 has the ideal grip size in combination with the angle. Feels great in the hand and the mag release, like all the M series guns, is typical American. Downside with the release is that it protrudes from an otherwise extremely flat gun. I find that the release pokes at me and abrades clothing when carrying. Also, I once accidentally popped a mag out while sliding into a car seat. Another plus for the M series guns is the inclusion of a plastic heat shield above the trigger guard. The gas port heats up when you fire a lot of rounds through it quickly. This is only a problem at the range as on the street you will most likely not be carrying 50 rounds on you. The heat shield helps a bit, but the gun still gets hot. The PSP lacks a heat shield.
The PSP is my favorite gun, hands down. The original design is still the best. Extremely flat an protrusion free. The butt mag release is not a problem for me because the whole damn gun is different. The PSP only lacks the heat shield and requires a tool to remove the firing pin/striker assembly. The trigger guard is shorter than the M series, but still long enough for my fingers and gloves. Plus I think the shorter trigger guard looks better.
My envisioned “product improved” P7PSP would include losing the finger hook on the trigger guard, adding the firing pin/striker assembly and the heat shield from the M8 and making the frame out of titanium. Alas, this will probably never happen. Nothing is perfect, but the P7 is a great gun.
Manual of arms
The squeeze cocker is the most obvious feature of this gun. It permits a very safe mode of carry (uncocked) yet is incredibly fast into action with a very natural squeeze of the grip. Once depressed, the squeeze cocker only needs light pressure to remain cocked. Relax your grip, the gun decocks and is safe. Very intuitiative and natural, only different from every gun out there.
The squeeze cocker also serves as the slide release. With the slide back, pop a fresh mag in and squeeze the cocker: the slide releases and the gun is cocked, ready to go. I continue to think this is one of the most sublime features of this gun. No shifting grips to hit the slide stop or using the weak hand thumb.
The slide release is easy to access when deliberately locking the slide back but totally unobtrusive, 100% flush and snag-free.
The gun field strips faster and easier than a SIG or Glock. Pop the mag, lock the slide back, verify empty and push the left side button to lift the slide up and off. With the M8 the firing pin assembly can be field stripped by slightly cocking the gun (again, verify empty) and push turning on the bushing at the rear of the slide out pops the firing pin/striker unit.
Ergonomics
The gun has a very (to me) natural grip angle. Raise the gun and I am on target. P7s and 1911s do this for me whereas Glocks and S&W revolvers tend to point high. I know this is a matter of individual fit, but it works for me.
The slide sits low to the frame, in part due to the lack of a tilting barrel locking mechanism. As a result the gun seems to recoil more in a straight line back versus flipping or twisting up. Helps keep the gun on target and don’t need a compensator or muzzle porting to do it. (the HK USP 45 Compact has a rather high flipping recoil motion). Again, this is an individual perception, but one that works for me.
The mag release of both the M series and PSP are ambidextrous. The M series can be released with either the thumb and/or the forefinger of the shooting hand. The European mag release is accessed by the weekhand thumb. I think this mag release gets a raw deal. With very little practice I find it very fast – note you do not have to press thumb and drag out the mag. Hit the release and keep your hand clear and the mag will pop out with a force similar to an M series.
Design
The gas retarded blowback action dampens recoil and the fixed barrel makes the gun very accurate.
The fluted chamber ensures extraction with the extractor insuring positive and consistent extraction. A nice feature, because one part that breaks on a lot of gun designs is the extractor. Loose the extractor on the P7 and you are still in the fight.
Polygonal rifling increases muzzle velocity and cleans up easier.
On the M series the extended trigger guard means most winter gloves will clear it. Alternatively, I have no problem with light winter gloves and the shorter trigger guard of the PSP.
Safety
Squeeze it, its cocked. Relax your grip, its uncocked. Again, very natural and so simple that you don’t really have to “learn” it. While this contributes greatly to gun safety, adherence to the four general safety rules is the most important.
Quality Craftmanship
This baby is built. In deference to SIG P series and HK USP pistols, this is the best made factory gun out there. Not only great materials (you just know that slide is special from the look and feel of that steel) and great finishing detail but you also get a bunch of little extras. Like the slide top is serrated, the ejection port is beveled, the mag well is beveled, the front and backstraps are lightly stippled and the sights are not cheesy plastic ala Glock and are ready for night sight tubes. Plus the gun is dehorned for hand comfort.
Variants and Preferences
I don’t care at all for the P7M10 in 40. That is one I do not own. A big heavy chunky pistol with a really stiff recoil spring. Seems like the gas retarded action is a bit light for 40 and HK had to make it up with slide weight and a heavy spring. The weight distribution of a P7M8 or PSP is already a little top grip heavy, and the M10 makes it even worse. A downright unwieldy gun.
The P7M13, with its double stack mag is a bit chunky in the grip for me. Thick and straight like a brick, not at all like the curvaceous Browning High Power. Preban mags are REAL expensive - ~$125 each.
The P7M8 has the ideal grip size in combination with the angle. Feels great in the hand and the mag release, like all the M series guns, is typical American. Downside with the release is that it protrudes from an otherwise extremely flat gun. I find that the release pokes at me and abrades clothing when carrying. Also, I once accidentally popped a mag out while sliding into a car seat. Another plus for the M series guns is the inclusion of a plastic heat shield above the trigger guard. The gas port heats up when you fire a lot of rounds through it quickly. This is only a problem at the range as on the street you will most likely not be carrying 50 rounds on you. The heat shield helps a bit, but the gun still gets hot. The PSP lacks a heat shield.
The PSP is my favorite gun, hands down. The original design is still the best. Extremely flat an protrusion free. The butt mag release is not a problem for me because the whole damn gun is different. The PSP only lacks the heat shield and requires a tool to remove the firing pin/striker assembly. The trigger guard is shorter than the M series, but still long enough for my fingers and gloves. Plus I think the shorter trigger guard looks better.
My envisioned “product improved” P7PSP would include losing the finger hook on the trigger guard, adding the firing pin/striker assembly and the heat shield from the M8 and making the frame out of titanium. Alas, this will probably never happen. Nothing is perfect, but the P7 is a great gun.
Stephen A. Camp
Staff In Memoriam
Hello, PSP! Excellent post, but then I fully agree with all of your assessments and views! The only thing I don't like about the PSP is that it's difficult to fully detail strip!
Another nice thing is that it will extract even if the extractor is not present! Excellent little guns in my view.
Best.
Another nice thing is that it will extract even if the extractor is not present! Excellent little guns in my view.
Best.
The only p7 I like is the PSP. I have both PSP and P7M8. Gave the M8 to my son. The mag releases if you sneeze. The PSP is completely weedless. It hangs on nothing. The M8 must be carried in a good holster. My PSP goes in the waist band, tackle box, wifes purse, glove box, coat pocket, in the boot, etc. It is always ready for use and never unsafe.
If you are considering the P7M13, just get a Sig 226. The PSP is the best choice in the P7s, well rounded and weedless. hangfar.
If you are considering the P7M13, just get a Sig 226. The PSP is the best choice in the P7s, well rounded and weedless. hangfar.
Hi Stephen!
Thanks for your post on 9mm carbine reloading recipes.
Anyway, if you shoot a P7 and you're a decent shooter, that ragged hole at 15 and 25 yards will convince you.
It is my most accurate 9mm and most of us own Glocks, Sigs, HK USPs, Rugers, and 1911s. Simply put, it is the sweetest 9mm on the market. The Sig P210 is nice too but it's not concealable and its hammer can bites you.
Besides the P7's excellent accuracy, it is built like a tank out of the highest quality steel and doesn't even need an extractor to function. It has cycled every round I've put in it even light cream puff loads my Glocks and Sigs wouldn't cycle.
I know where you can get a P7M13 for $1000 if you're serious (it's a local dealer's).
Thanks for your post on 9mm carbine reloading recipes.
Anyway, if you shoot a P7 and you're a decent shooter, that ragged hole at 15 and 25 yards will convince you.
It is my most accurate 9mm and most of us own Glocks, Sigs, HK USPs, Rugers, and 1911s. Simply put, it is the sweetest 9mm on the market. The Sig P210 is nice too but it's not concealable and its hammer can bites you.
Besides the P7's excellent accuracy, it is built like a tank out of the highest quality steel and doesn't even need an extractor to function. It has cycled every round I've put in it even light cream puff loads my Glocks and Sigs wouldn't cycle.
I know where you can get a P7M13 for $1000 if you're serious (it's a local dealer's).
1. Squeeze cocking. IMHO the safest gun for daily carry. The gun goes from perfectly safe to perfectly deadly in a split second. If you drop it you may have a heart attack because it might get scratched but you can rest assured it won't go off. This gun is incredibly fast.
2. Trigger pull. Thanks to the squeeze cocking system the gun is safely equiped with an excellent single action trigger pull. I've had die-hard partisans of every type of gun praise my P7's trigger.
3. Compact. Although it has full-size controls (no pinkey hang), the gun is sized like a compact approaching a subcompact. It is much thinner than almost any handgun.(1.1-1.2 inches).
4. Full-size barrel. Despite this gun's compact size it has a full 4 inch barrel.
5. Fixed-barrel. This gun lacks the tilting barrel assembly of most other full-sized guns. This lends the gun exceptional accuracy. In combination with the aforementioned trigger, this barrel makes the P7 ultra-accurate.
6. Low recoil. This is debatable. I have always felt that this has the least recoil of any 9mm. Some disagree, most don't. This is likely result of the guns low bore/axis and gas system(although some say the gas system should have no effect).
7. Tough! This gun is CNC milled from a solid steel forging. The gun is so solid it could be used as a nasty set of brass nuckles in a pich. Without picking one up it is hard to imagine how solid this little gun feels. When I had mine hardchromed the smith complained endlessly about how hard the P7 was to machine.
8. Excellent sight radius. Although the gun is short, HK maximized the sight radius by pushing the sights as far apart as practically possible,
9. Oddball manual of arms confuses bad guys and know it all buddies. There are many accounts of cops loosing their P7's to bad guys who were, in turn, unable to figure out the squeeze cocker. On the lighter side, a know it all at a local gunshop had just explained to all of his bad experiences with the P7 when I handed it to him only to watch him fumble around unable to cock it! Hilarious.
2. Trigger pull. Thanks to the squeeze cocking system the gun is safely equiped with an excellent single action trigger pull. I've had die-hard partisans of every type of gun praise my P7's trigger.
3. Compact. Although it has full-size controls (no pinkey hang), the gun is sized like a compact approaching a subcompact. It is much thinner than almost any handgun.(1.1-1.2 inches).
4. Full-size barrel. Despite this gun's compact size it has a full 4 inch barrel.
5. Fixed-barrel. This gun lacks the tilting barrel assembly of most other full-sized guns. This lends the gun exceptional accuracy. In combination with the aforementioned trigger, this barrel makes the P7 ultra-accurate.
6. Low recoil. This is debatable. I have always felt that this has the least recoil of any 9mm. Some disagree, most don't. This is likely result of the guns low bore/axis and gas system(although some say the gas system should have no effect).
7. Tough! This gun is CNC milled from a solid steel forging. The gun is so solid it could be used as a nasty set of brass nuckles in a pich. Without picking one up it is hard to imagine how solid this little gun feels. When I had mine hardchromed the smith complained endlessly about how hard the P7 was to machine.
8. Excellent sight radius. Although the gun is short, HK maximized the sight radius by pushing the sights as far apart as practically possible,
9. Oddball manual of arms confuses bad guys and know it all buddies. There are many accounts of cops loosing their P7's to bad guys who were, in turn, unable to figure out the squeeze cocker. On the lighter side, a know it all at a local gunshop had just explained to all of his bad experiences with the P7 when I handed it to him only to watch him fumble around unable to cock it! Hilarious.
Stephen A. Camp: yeah, I can relate to your point about the P7 being tough to detail strip. But with all the parts in the frame, it would probably be a bear to put back together again! I usually make do with a childrens toothbrush, solvent, a can of action cleaner and TLC.
Greg Bell: Absolutely spot on with your observations. I forgot to mention your point #9 in my original post, but not getting shot to death by your own gun has some credence to it. Also forgot about your point #2, gotta love that single action trigger!
God, I love the P7. It is my gun-soulmate (and the 1911 is my mistress!)
Greg Bell: Absolutely spot on with your observations. I forgot to mention your point #9 in my original post, but not getting shot to death by your own gun has some credence to it. Also forgot about your point #2, gotta love that single action trigger!
God, I love the P7. It is my gun-soulmate (and the 1911 is my mistress!)
Hickman: I bought my last PSP, NIB for $900. I have seen NIB P7M8s going for about $1,050 to $1,150. Seeing that the PSP is the better gun, that makes it a veritable bargin!
HK-USA blew their PSP inventory out a few months ago, so the dealers got a deal. You can still find them on the shelves if you call around. The M8 is a little harder to come by, with the NJ police order consuming production. I think us 'Mericans generally like the M8 better, hence the higher price.
The mags for and M8 and PSP are different due to the different location of the mag latch. P7 mags are probably the best constructed mag in the world. You could probably run one over with a car and it would keep functioning!
Krept: The M series guns (P7M8, P7M13 and P7M10) have the mag release in the classical American position behind the trigger guard. It is an ambi lever similar to the USP, except it is made out of stamped steel and has a little wing on each side of the lever that protrudes (and pokes you in the side when carrying it). Unlike the USP, the trigger guard is not flared to help with accidential releases and smooth the contour.
The PSP has its mag release in the classical European location at the heel of the butt. On newer production PSPs, it is a flush mounted button that you push in and down with. A not to often mentioned benefit of the PSP is the mag will eject with the same force as an M8 or like a 1911. So with the PSP, mag changes are not like some European guns where you have to thumbe the release and manually pull the mag out.
[Edited by psp on 12-07-2000 at 03:54 PM]
HK-USA blew their PSP inventory out a few months ago, so the dealers got a deal. You can still find them on the shelves if you call around. The M8 is a little harder to come by, with the NJ police order consuming production. I think us 'Mericans generally like the M8 better, hence the higher price.
The mags for and M8 and PSP are different due to the different location of the mag latch. P7 mags are probably the best constructed mag in the world. You could probably run one over with a car and it would keep functioning!
Krept: The M series guns (P7M8, P7M13 and P7M10) have the mag release in the classical American position behind the trigger guard. It is an ambi lever similar to the USP, except it is made out of stamped steel and has a little wing on each side of the lever that protrudes (and pokes you in the side when carrying it). Unlike the USP, the trigger guard is not flared to help with accidential releases and smooth the contour.
The PSP has its mag release in the classical European location at the heel of the butt. On newer production PSPs, it is a flush mounted button that you push in and down with. A not to often mentioned benefit of the PSP is the mag will eject with the same force as an M8 or like a 1911. So with the PSP, mag changes are not like some European guns where you have to thumbe the release and manually pull the mag out.
[Edited by psp on 12-07-2000 at 03:54 PM]
Sling Shot
New member
I owned a P7-M8 for about a week. I loved the trigger and accuracy. I just could never get used to the squeeze cocker even though it is a safety feature. The P7-M8 fit my hand like a glove because of the narrow grip, and I have large hands. Kind of heavy in my opinion, but it is an all steel gun. It was also easy to field srip like the other posters said. It took me just a couple of hours to learn the manual of arms and field stripping. After 50 rounds, the heat shield started heating up, and after 100 rounds it was unbearable to fire the pistol because my trigger finger was on fire. I love the overall design of the pistol, fixed barrel, squeeze cocker, able to extract without extractor, grip, and the single action trigger. I did notice that if you take the slide off, and look underneath the slide, there has been a lot of welding that has taken place. I do not know the whole story on this, but it does look like a weak point of the P7-M8 that I owned. Maybe other owners more knowledgeable than me on the welding subject could explain it more in detail. I like the pistol overall, but I will not buy one again.
Sling Shot
Sling Shot
I'm a little confused, but I'm used to that. Anyway, I tried to get some more info on the P7's, HKpro claims only 239 psp's were ever produced, and a few I found for sale all claim low serial numbers. HK Germany's website makes no mention of a psp, only m series. HK USA's website says psp's are currently available, and a few posts here refer to newer production and NIB psp's. What's the scoop?
charlesfmason
New member
The PSP is still available. A local dealer has a NIB one for about $1050.
Another local dealer had a NIB P7/M8 for $999. Guess which one I bought?
With all due respect to Mr. PSP, IMHO the M8 is the better choice, even when it costs a little more. The heatguard does, in fact, help, as does the bigger trigger guard. I don't find that the M8 mag release "digs" into my body. It does, on the other hand, make mag changes easier and faster for most of us accustomed to American-style mag releases. If you use more than one gun with different style releases (European vs. American), switching from one to another can definitely slow you down.
Another local dealer had a NIB P7/M8 for $999. Guess which one I bought?
With all due respect to Mr. PSP, IMHO the M8 is the better choice, even when it costs a little more. The heatguard does, in fact, help, as does the bigger trigger guard. I don't find that the M8 mag release "digs" into my body. It does, on the other hand, make mag changes easier and faster for most of us accustomed to American-style mag releases. If you use more than one gun with different style releases (European vs. American), switching from one to another can definitely slow you down.
Zach Vonler
New member
slojim: The confusion is that the prototype of the P7 series was called the PSP. That's what there are 239 of (if hkpro is correct). When the P7 series proper came out, HK produced (and still does) a model called the P7PSP. That's what you're probably finding for sale.
9mmepiphany
New member
vonler is correct, the proto's are the "real" psp; i never heard the gun refered to that way until i found this board, i always just called it a P7.
there were two different mag releases on this model,both on the heel of the butt, both push in, the only difference was that one protruded and the other was recessed into the butt.
i also think that the original mag release works better than the "m" series, the wings poke me in the side too, the mags jump out powered by the spring and if it gets stuck you're weak hand is already on the butt to strip it out.
psp - your initial description of the beauty of the P7 family was great. the two things i can add are:
1) the gas system varies the lock time of the action, it is self regulating. the gas in the chamber locks slide till pressure drops to predetermined level, lower presure loading opens sooner, higher opens later.
2)even with the excellent grip angle, the mag is inserted into the butt perpendicular to the barrel, rounds feed straight up the mag and jump right into the chamber
*just a question: i had always heard that the groves in the chamber were to help delay the opening... the gas expands and clings to the chamber? enlightenment please.
my only complaint, desire, druthers for my PSP is for a lighter frame...yes i'd pay the price for titanium frame
anyone listening out there?
there were two different mag releases on this model,both on the heel of the butt, both push in, the only difference was that one protruded and the other was recessed into the butt.
i also think that the original mag release works better than the "m" series, the wings poke me in the side too, the mags jump out powered by the spring and if it gets stuck you're weak hand is already on the butt to strip it out.
psp - your initial description of the beauty of the P7 family was great. the two things i can add are:
1) the gas system varies the lock time of the action, it is self regulating. the gas in the chamber locks slide till pressure drops to predetermined level, lower presure loading opens sooner, higher opens later.
2)even with the excellent grip angle, the mag is inserted into the butt perpendicular to the barrel, rounds feed straight up the mag and jump right into the chamber
*just a question: i had always heard that the groves in the chamber were to help delay the opening... the gas expands and clings to the chamber? enlightenment please.
my only complaint, desire, druthers for my PSP is for a lighter frame...yes i'd pay the price for titanium frame
anyone listening out there?