+P recoil, .38 SPL

B

BritGirl

Inactive
I'm new to guns and only have about 400 rounds under my belt (Taurus 850 CIA).

I've had a box of +P ammo for several months, but I've been a bit intimidated to fire these rounds - though I plan to during my next range visit.

I realize it may be hard to generalize without specific brands/grains, etc. but please can you indicate how much additional recoil I'll feel (expressed as a percentage).

I know...I know, you're going to say just go shoot a few rounds and find out first hand, but I'm one of those "planners" :barf: who doesn't like to get totally blind-sided. I'd like to have some idea if it will be barely noticeable, or a significant difference, or somewhere in between.

On a related note, how will the 110 gr federal hydroshoks compare with std .38 SPL ammo? I guess I'm supposed to replace these PD rounds every 6 months.

THANKS IN ADVANCE.
 
Wow, the recoil issue is a hard one to answer.
The 110+p loads will recoil a bit more, my guess would be about 30% more.
I wouldn't worry about it, the CIA has great grips so you will notice the muzzle flip more than anything.
If you find the recoil uncomfortable, there are shooting gloves that you can wear, or even simple weight lifiting gloves have some padding to make shooting more comfortable.

The 110 Hydra's are a good load, much, much better than the practice load would be for personal defense.
Now if you had to shoot in a defensive situation, you won't even notice the recoil. BTW, I hope you never do have to use your weapon.
Common advice is to rotate you carry ammo after a certain amount of time.
My dept gives us fresh ammo once a year and we have yet to have a failure on the part of the ammo or a malfunction of any kind in the 14 years I have been a cop. Quality ammo is very resistant to damage from carry, but it's better safe than sorry with your PD ammo.
 
What weight bullets ya been shootin'?

If it happens to be the 158 grainers, there may not be a whole lot of perceived recoil difference with lighter weight +Ps. What I typically recommend for cheapo "target loads" are the 130 grainers, which do have somewhat less "thump" than most 158s.

As said above, the Taurii have a pretty good grips. If you were jumping from .38 to .357, I'd say be ready for much more blast (and possibly a little pain). But, if you've got 400 rounds through the gun already, I suspect you'll do just fine with +Ps.
 
Britgirl,

In general, each persons reaction to recoil is different. Thus it is very hard to say how you will react. But that said, if regular 38s don't bother you, I'll bet you'll hardly notice the (slight) additional recoil of the +P.

When going from standard 38s to the +P my observation in training others has been that the "bark" of the gun will surprise them much more than the recoil. So, if you wear really good ear protection and watch you grip on the gun and you should do fine.

Just a side note, my wife actually enjoys shooting 38+Ps out of her 4" S&W more than the standard loads. She also shoots the +Ps with greater accuracy. k
 
I have shot both Magtec 158gr .38spl LSWC and Federal Premium PD 130gr and felt only a slight difference in the two.
 
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"How do .38 +P (or +P+) rounds compare to .357 in a .357 chambered revolver?"
Click to expand...
BIG difference. I've never shot +P+ ammo, but tried out the Speer Gold Dot +P .38 spec. 135 gr. JHP's in my S&W 686+ .357. The +P had more felt recoil than the .38 spec. target loads, but not a lot more. The .357 magnum loads absolutely let you know that you're shooting a very powerful handgun. My .357 is a 2.5in. barrel snubby, so I'm probably feeling the sting a little more than someone with a 4in. barrel. I'm just now learning to control the torque of the .357......and it's a blast! :D

U.F.O.
 
Ah, good to know. I shoot plenty of 38 and 357 through my 6", and it might be fun to try out some +P or +P+ 38 loads for a little variety.
 
Thanks for your responses. It sounds as if I don't have too much to worry about.

As for your questions; yes 158 gr std ammo in various brands. I don't initially find the recoil too bad, but I find I get pretty fatigued after about 85-90 rounds, but usually push and finish 100 :) Last time I lost a bit of thumb skin - the recoil caused rubbing in the same spot! Perhaps gloves make sense for range practice. And...just one more reason I need to invest in a .22 also.

A friend had helped me select a PD weapon by going to the range with a few of his many handguns. For a number of reasons I was most comfortable with a revolver, and specifically the 850 CIA. Of coure, being a snubbie, it was a bit less forgiving on the recoil than the 9mm Beretta (my 2nd choice, but I wanted to avoid autoloader for first gun).

However, I also fired one (and only one) magazine of .45 caliber rounds - ouch! I really didn't enjoy that. I didn't do terribly, and mostly hit the target, but a bit too much punch for a small person like myself.

Never fired 357 magnum rounds, but I hear they have considerably more recoil and flash than 38 spl. That is why I didn't even bother to explore guns chambered for both rounds, but for most guys that would probably be the wiser choice (and perhaps most gals too). Just speaking for myself.
 
110 grain hydrashocks

If those 110 grain hydrashocks are the ones I am thinking of, they are designed to be a soft recoiling round. I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how they feel. Ones I have are not even rated as +p, but are designed to give +p like performance without recoil or stresses on the gun. Very nice cartridges.
Let us know what you think.

Mikey
 
If you thought the 45 was punchy, you ought to try a few rounds out of a 357! If you get the chance to do it indoors, at least give a few a try. It's an "exciting" experience to try out.

On the other hand, if you fire a large enough 357 (6" Python or Smith), the felt recoil is actually a bit lower than a full size 45 like a 1911. You still get that impressive boom/flash/heat, but the felt recoil isn't so bad.
 
If ya can locate 'em, the 130 grainers instead of 158s might get you thru the next 100-round range session with all of the skin you went in with. ;)

The 135 grain +P Gold Dots are supposedly the latest and greatest PD loads - designed specifically for snubbies. Price will likely be such that you won't be able to shoot a lot of them at once. They are relatively new and I've been unable to locate them yet at local shops or the last two DFW gun shows ...
 
i have a taurus 85 ultralite, and the +p loads don't seem that bad. i've shot two boxes orf regular 38 and two boxes of +p in one outing, and i'm none the worse for wear.

just my .02
 
BritGirl,

Recoil is essentially a function of the bullet weight, velocity and the weight of the firearm. A lighter bullet moving at a given speed will produce less recoil than a heavier bullet at the same speed. Your perception of recoil is based on the grip size, gun's weight, muzzle blast/concussion, shooting location (in/outdoors), etc.

The chart below should give you a comparison matrix for your .38 Special +P rated Taurus 850 which weighs in at 21oz. If you have been firing 130gr Winchester-USA (White box) full jacketed round-nose practice ammo then Federal 110gr JHP's will recoil in the same energy level. Once you start getting over 8 to 9 ft-lbs of energy it becomes harder to hold on for a fast second shot. The .357 Magnum loads were tossed in to give some people with lightweight guns a reference.


Taurus 850 - 21oz ........................ Velocity ..... Energy..... Recoil
FEDERAL 110gr JHP ....................... 1000 ........ 244 ......... 5.96
FEDERAL 129gr JHP ......................... 950 ......... 258 ......... 6.95
FEDERAL 158gr RNL ......................... 760 ......... 203 ......... 6.75
WIN-USA 130gr RNFMJ ..................... 800 ......... 185 ........ 5.51
WIN-USA 125gr JSP ......................... 850 ......... 201 ........ 5.68
WIN-Super-X 125gr +P STHP ............. 945 ......... 248 ........ 6.59
WIN-Super-X 158gr +P LSWCHP ......... 890 ......... 278 ........ 8.51
Win-Supreme 130gr +P JHP T-series .... 925 ......... 247 ....... 6.76
WIN-Super-X 125gr .357Mag JHP...... 1450 .......... 583 ..... 12.59
WIN-Super-X 145gr .357M STHP ...... 1290 .......... 535 ..... 13.24
WIN-Super-X 158gr .357M JSP ........ 1235 .......... 535 ..... 14.17
................................................... (fps) .........(ft-lbs) ... (ft-lbs)
Muzzle velocities shown are published data for a 4-inch barrel.

In my stainless steel 23oz S&W M649 "Bodyguard" the 158gr .357 mag loads require re-gripping the gun between shots. The 125gr loads are "tolerable". The 158gr +P .38 Specials are stout but not terribly uncomfortable.
 
BillCA -- thanks for the chart, very interesting.

Wow....remind me not to shoot .357Mag rounds. I know my limits, and that is why I didn't purchase a revolver chambered for both .357 and .38 spl.

I just checked my current ammo stash. Other than the +P & hydroshoks, I have 130 gr rounds (I indicated 158 gr rounds earlier). However, I know at least one box/brand I had was 158 gr.

Another observation several of you made was the noise in addition to the recoil. So true. Actually, the noise bothers me more than the recoil - until fatigue sets in. I just got some Remington ear-protectors nrr33. They seem a bit better than the ones the range loans me (tested them with a powertool). Looking forward to trying them out at the range. It's usually the noise from other shooters that is the worst :) You know, you're doing your thing...and suddenly KABOOM from next door.
 
A great tactic for getting around the intimidation factor - shoot outside. The first time I ever fired a 357 was indoors and it was devastatingly blasty. A big psychological impact. After a while, I started shooting outside. It's like night and day. You can feel the additional recoil, but instead of being 200% 'scarier' than a 38, it was more like 20%. Literally.

I've always felt that one has to learn to 'trust' ones guns. You buy a new gun, and you just don't know how it's going to behave. The unfamiliar recoil and blast can be downright intimidating. After a while (1000 rounds?) you really start to forget about all that.

But the fastest route away from intimidation - shoot outdoors. Put a couple hundred rounds through it on a nice sunny day. Next time you go back inside, you'll be in a very different frame of mind. The "boom" factor might still register with you, but you'll be well past it.
 
BritGirl, glad to hear you're enjoying your revolver and smart move on getting your own ear protection. We did this too, and mostly because we tried to cut as much cost of "going out shooting" as we could. Basically we got tired of paying for them :o But getting your own allows you to get some quality protection too. One thing I'd suggest if you really want to dampen sound, along with your outer muffs, put in inners too. I did this last trip to the range and it was comfortable. Plus it helped calm the flinch and anticipation from the shot.

BillCA, good chart on the recoil. I shoot Winchester 150 gr lead nose rounds for target, and my carry rounds are Fed Hydrashok 110 +p JHPs. Now, I haven't shot many of the 150 gr because my gun pooped out with timing problems. But the first 15 did go smooth. And while a nice pop, the recoil was alright. I'm going to run some 110s through it to see how they shoot.
 
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One additional note that I didn't notce anyone already making,

Yes PD ammo cost big bucks, but you should always shoot at least a cylinder full of your PD ammo to know where it will hit and that you have 100% ignition.
I can think of only one gun (a 6" 686) that I have that hits the same place with standard & P+ ammo. A very rare bird...
That said, generally groups are not so far apart as to make any difference on a man size target at 10 or even 15 yards, still you want to know, for the confidence factor if nothing else.

Also, one thing we do is "test" our PD ammo out of a cold, clean gun, just like it would be if you actually needed it.
It's just our idea, but at the range we will always shoot the PD upon arrival, while we are cold as well as the gun. I have never heard of a perp waiting for a person to get up to speed.... After that we drag out the practice ammo and work on our technique and accuracy.
 
BritGirl,
Welcome to the world of shooting, I'm sure you'll enjoy it for years to come.

My ex-wife was 5 foot and 80#'s when we started shooting together many years ago. She started with a .22 and ,38's in a .357 and shot weekly with me at both inside and outside ranges with good hearing protection.
She worked up to full house .357's and even enjoyed shooting my .44 mags after working up to them and did it when she felt ready. It was all a matter of confidence in herself and proper hold and stance. She was a good shot and I hope she's still shooting today.
My wife now of 15 years will shoot .38's and some .357's but that's as far as she wants to go up the caliber ladder which is fine with me. She's also a good shot, I think women are more open to instruction and actually can outshoot most guys on same experience level.

The .22 you mentioned is a good training aid and fun to shoot too. I'd suggest if you're getting tired though to stop shooting and save those extra rounds in the box for next time. Shooting when you're done makes for bad habits later that are hard to break.
 
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