+P ammo against Mfr recommendations

I would go with the manufacturer recommendation. However, I doubt that a few rounds of +p is going to damage anything. You could practice with the standard rounds. Fire a few +p to check the POI, and then carry that when packing. As far as the 380 not being a good self defense round, watch a couple of episodes of the First 48. Seems like 75% of the people put to bed on that show were shot with a 380. And the rest were killed with a 9mm. Might not be ideal, but will defenitly get the job done.
 
I've been watching a lot of TruTV lately on on Forensic Files seems that 75% people are killed with a .22! These are not "whatever gun is handy" killings, but more planned. It simply amazes me....
 
Ruger added the CYA to their manual. It wasn't in the manual shipped with the first LCPs.

Buffalo Bore's .380 +P ammo is what is generating most of the controversy. His ammo does have a significant velocity edge over standard loads - 1,061 fps out of a Keltec P-3AT. Since there is no standard for 380 +P. I asked Buffalo Bore by e-mail just how much pressure their rounds generate, and they did claim a pressure number in excess of SAAMI specs, but insisted that lots of people have used their ammo in the LCP without problems.

Buffalo Bore 380 Auto +P Pistol and Handgun Ammo

I doubt very much that a few rounds of the Buffalo Bore fodder is going to jam a pistol, much less blow it up, but a steady diet would probably batter it. A stiffer spring would solve most of the problems. Wolff sells a stiffer spring for the Keltec. I don't know if it fits the Ruger, but given how close the rest of the pistol is a clone, I'd be surprised if it didn't.

P3AT, .380 ACP Extra Power.........: 13, 15 and 16 Lb.
 
Other than .38 Special, just how many SAAMI +P cartridges are there in factory ammo?
Click to expand...

Officially, only three. The only +P cartridges that SAAMI recognizes pressure specs for are 9mm Luger, .45 ACP, and .38 Special.

I don't recall ever seeing .380 ACP +P or .45 Colt +P on a store shelf. Has this become just a way of describing hot handloads?
Click to expand...

Some of the smaller ammo makers advertise cartridges other than the "official" ones in +P. Usually, these loadings actually fall with SAAMI standard pressure specs, they just make more efficient use of certain powder to get more velocity than is typical with standard pressure loadings. In the case of the .45 Long Colt, however, so-called +P loads are usually actually overpressure according to SAAMI. .45LC +P are typically marketed as Ruger-only loadings as SAAMI has kept .45LC max pressure relatively low in deference to weaker guns such as the Colt SAA.

(The .38 Super is not "+P". It is .38 Super, not .38ACP +P.)
Click to expand...

While it is actually loaded to SAAMI standard pressure, many manufacturers choose to label their .38 Super ammunition as ".38 Super Auto +P" in order to disuade someone from attempting to shoot it in an old gun chambered for .38 ACP (the two cartridges are dimensionally identical).
 
The .380 is typically in a blowback versus a locked breech.Springs and inertia are tuned .Non -recommended P rounds means something gets battered.Could be takedown pin and the holes for it in the frame(I do not know the Ruger)
My 2 cents,if you want a +P .380,get a 9x18.
Beyond that,prioritize reliability obove a few fps in a SD gun.I question"fire a few for poi".Fire at least 100 to see if it even thinks about a hiccup.

Think about the slide slamming back into the frame at full recoil.What happens to the next round coming up in the magazine,to the feed lips?
Suppose it might get scooted forward a bit?
 
The only +P cartridges that SAAMI recognizes pressure specs for are 9mm Luger, .45 ACP, and .38 Special.
Click to expand...
And manufacturers typically won't even recognize anything that's not SAAMI-rated. So in Ruger's eyes, all .45Colts are equal and run at 14,000psi. They have never condoned the use of handloads or over-pressure loads in their guns. You have to look at it from several angles and decide for yourself. However, if Tim Sundles (of Buffalo Bore) says it's safe, I'd take that to the bank.
 
However, if Tim Sundles (of Buffalo Bore) says it's safe, I'd take that to the bank.
Click to expand...

If I were a betting man, I'd wager that Buffalo Bore's .380 +P ammunition is actually within SAAMI standard pressure specifications. My guess is that BB just uses the +P designation as a marketing tool to get across the point that their .380 ammo achieves higher velocity than everybody else's.
 
For the same reason people ask me to reload ammo for them that is hotter than the manuals list. Recently had a conversation with a fellow at the range that wanted me to load some .270 ammo at higher velocity than the load manuals listed. I tried to explain that pressure levels went up faster than velocity and he would probably wind up with a "KABOOM." He was absolutely convinced that higher velocity would equal more accuracy. If you think you're smarter than the guys in the white coats at Ruger, then by all means go ahead and shoot +p . You will probably get away with it. For a while.
 
Last edited:
Just a thought...

... but I'm guessing the people who argue in favor of using rounds loaded above their weapon's manufacturer's recommended or approved pressures are not worried about having their warranties honored...
 
... but I'm guessing the people who argue in favor of using rounds loaded above their weapon's manufacturer's recommended or approved pressures are not worried about having their warranties honored...
Click to expand...
If only the world were that perfect.

Some may think like that and I commend the people with sufficient integrity to own up to the consequences of their decisions. Unfortunately many folks have the philosophy that they can do what they want and if the gun gives up on them they'll complain until the manufacturer fixes it regardless of the fact that the manufacturer warned them not to do what they did.

That said, except in some rare cases (Jim mentioned them) and in the case of very old firearms, +P isn't likely to cause catastrophic problems. It will put additional wear on the firearm and may cause minor durability issues but it's not at all likely to cause a blowup.
 
I only recently learned about +P ammo the hard way. I ordered some Military 9mm ammo left over from a contract, and made by Winchester. No where in the description did it say the ammo was +P. I was supposed to know that all NATO ammo is +P. Fortunately, I found out about it thru a helpful member on another forum. I bought it to shoot thru my Marlin Camp 9. A 9mm carbine for those that don’t know. The Camp 9 is not rated to shoot +P, so I will hold off on using this ammo till I make a decision on the new handgun. Narrowed down to 3, and all will take +P. Had to go order more ammo to shoot thru the Camp 9. This ammo shortage thing is a pain. I had to order online, and it’s back ordered. Be at least 3 weeks before it ships. :mad:

As thoroughly discussed in this thread, if the manufacture does not recommend +P ammo, it’s probably not in your best interest to use it. For what it’s worth, I’m not going there. I will not put one round thru the Camp 9, even tho I might get away with it for a while, the possibility of the +P weakening the gun just isn’t worth it. That's my newbie two cents worth.
 
It's not so much about whether a person should follow a manufacturer's advice/recommendations/guidelines, it's what they should do AFTERWARDS.

If a person doesn't want to follow manufacturer recommendations that is their prerogative since the gun is their property. But in my opinion, a person with integrity will do the following:

  • Advise any purchaser of a firearm that has not been treated in accordance with manufacturer recommendations/guidelines of what has been done to the firearm if what has been done can not be undone 100% before the sale is made.
  • Advise any user of a firearm that has not been treated in accordance with manufacturer recommendations/guidelines of what has been done to the firearm before that person uses the firearm.
  • Hold the manufacturer completely blameless and waive all liability of the manufacturer for any and all consequences arising from his refusal to follow manufacturer guidelines/recommendations.
  • Refrain from advising others to violate manufacturer recommendations/guidelines unless he fully understands and fully explains all the ramifications of such actions.
  • Refrain from engaging in any behavior which could conceivably compromise the safety of others. (e.g. I once found myself at the range shooting next to someone running .357Mag level loads through a 9mm pistol. As far as I'm concerned he's free to do that if he wants but I do not believe he should do it right next to me.)
 
i say let the people who ignore warnings kill themselves and we can all move on as smarter humans without that kind of stupidity in the gene pool. but thats just me, take it for what its worth
Click to expand...
A bit harsh, but on another note, the problem arises when they're shooting at, say a local range, and it injures not only them, but bystanders as well.
 
As has been mentioned,it is unlikly anything catastophic will happen using +P ammo ordinarily.Special cases might be something like a trapdoor springfield in 45-70 ,or the .38 Auto in the old Colt autos versus 38auto+P/38 Super.
I think more likely is shorter handgun life and reduced reliability.

IMHO,800 fps that lets the gun last a lifetime and works every time is a far better than 878 fps that makes compromise.

Something like a higher rate recoil spring and/or a shock buff might make it OK. Metal slamming metal is the problem.
 
I am no expert. I have a SD Kimber ultra covert II .45 1911. Manual ironically says in red, do not carry the gun cocked and loaded (as most 1911 enthusiasts advice). It says to use factory ammo and best results will be with 230gr ball ammo, I can verify that is true. I have JHP defensive ammo though. It SAYS NOTHING ABOUT +P AMMO. I have short two boxes of 185gr JHP +P ammo through it, and its nasty stuff indeed. So much so it doesn't feel like its any good for the gun. Violent angry injured raging fighting bull like violent.:eek:

I have a Berretta PX4 Storm 9mm, manual explicitly states not to use +P or +P+ ammo in it. It says gun will get damaged, and I believe that too. Never used +P ammo in this gun.

Conclusion: +P probably not advicable unless you have all steel gun. None of mine are all steel.
 
So in Britain where hand guns are banned, they claim that , "Guns can provide an intoxicating and almost pornographic attraction to young men who often feel powerless, according to academics in the field." according to the BBC.:rolleyes:

They also claim that British politicians have pointed the finger at Hollywood films, violent computer games and the posturing - often with guns - on hip-hop videos.:eek:

Interesting note is also that Russia, Belgium, Estonia and South Africa all have higher murder rates than the US yet guns are illegal. The US is approaching 6 people murder rate, while Russia is at 23 people and SA at 49 people murdered per 100,000 people. Its all the fault of the US on other continents too? Mexico claims US guns are behind their murders, but atleast they are our neighbors, these other places are far far away, and according to BBC it must be Hollywood and Hip Hop. I have no words.:confused:
 
Best to contact your gun manufacturer. I emailed Kel Tec regarding both my P-32 and P-3AT and was advised not to shoot more than one clip of +P ammo during the life of the gun!
 
Interesting note is also that Russia, Belgium, Estonia and South Africa all have higher murder rates than the US yet guns are illegal. The US is approaching 6 people murder rate, while Russia is at 23 people and SA at 49 people murdered per 100,000 people. Its all the fault of the US on other continents too? Mexico claims US guns are behind their murders, but atleast they are our neighbors, these other places are far far away, and according to BBC it must be Hollywood and Hip Hop. I have no words.
Click to expand...

Hi,
In South Africa it is legal to own firearms. It is much harder ( as in tedious process and long wait) to get the licenses, but not impossible. in General, any person may own up to 4, dedicated sportsmen/Hunters/Collectors may own several more.

We are at a serious turning point these days, the newly elected president has reaslised that previous legislation that caused LEO's and civilians (legal owners) to hesitate to shoot a criminal is about to be seriously re-written, police are now instructed to shoot-to- kill when confronted with armed criminals. The same law applies to civilians and LEO's where it comes to using a fireram against criminals.
It seems as if the politicians are finally begining to realise that the only way to reason with armed criminals is with force, equal or greater than what the criminals are prepared to use.

Interestingly, here once you have a license to own firearm it automatically allows you to carry, concealed or OC.

Regarding the OP, although many manufacturers tell you not to use +P ammo because they want to avoid litigation if things were to go boom, I think that it is a good idea to have a gunsmith that you know and trust inspect your particular firearm (even if it is +P rated) before using non standard ammo.

Brgds,

Danny
 
Last edited:
It seems as if the politicians are finally begining to realise that the only way to reason with armed criminals is with force, equal or greater than what the criminals are prepared to use.
Click to expand...
Well, good for South Africa and score one for our side!;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top