+P ammo against Mfr recommendations

A

armed_preacher

New member
I have a new Ruger LCP and the instructions say NOT to use +P rounds. Yet, I fiind all kinds of discussions about using +P ammo in the LCP (Cor Bon for example which evidently does not work in the LCP). Why are people trying to use +P when Ruger flatly states not to?
 
Because people think they're smarter than the manufacturer. Besides, if you're gonna buy and carry a wimpy little gun like that using +P ammo isn't going to make any difference.
 
The only difference is damaging the firearm. I have always been told that a small amount of +P ammo through a gun just carried for self defense won't hurt the gun, but I would recommended to go with what the manufacturer recommends!
 
Because people think they're smarter than the manufacturer. Besides, if you're gonna buy and carry a wimpy little gun like that using +P ammo isn't going to make any difference.
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My main carry gun is a .45 but there are times when I just can't carry it for reasons I won't disclose. Having a "wimpy" .380 with modern ammo is better than nothing. As far as that goes... there are plenty of people who have been killed by a well placed .22.
 
^+1^;)

Trigger Finger "I have always been told that a small amount of +P ammo through a gun just carried for self defense won't hurt the gun, but I would recommended to go with what the manufacturer recommends"

I'm with ya on that one. That one +p round not recommended seizes the gun then ya got a rock.
 
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i say let the people who ignore warnings kill themselves and we can all move on as smarter humans without that kind of stupidity in the gene pool. but thats just me, take it for what its worth
 
Most of the time "+P" means "10% over-pressure".

This is NOT true in 45LC+P. Watch out for that one! Some can grenade the wrong gun.

Another one to avoid unless you know exactly what's up is +P+ - esp. 38Spl+P+. Much of that stuff was basically 357Mag in 38Spl cases meant to allow the police to lie and say they weren't carrying "evil magnums". Run away screaming unless you're shooting it in a real 357 gun.
 
They probably say no +P .380 because, officially, there is no such thing. SAAMI only recognizes +P designations in .38 Special, 9mm, and .45 ACP (an exception to this is .38 Super, while SAAMI doesn't recognize .38 Super +P, most manufacturers mark .38 Super ammo as such in order to avoid confusion with the older, lower pressure .38 ACP) while CIP (the European counterpart to SAAMI) does not recognize +P for any caliber at all (though CIP's standard pressure limits are a bit higher for many calibers). Any company who markets .380 +P is either a) selling standard pressure ammo and using the +P as a marketing gimick, or b) loading ammunition that is outside of both SAAMI and CIP specifications. I suspect that because Ruger does not know which of these two cases is true, they err on the side of caution and simply say "no +P in the LCP."

The thing that must be remembered about +P designation is that it refers to pressure rather than velocity. While increased pressure ammunition does typically yield higher velocities, this isn't necessarily true. For example, Double Tap, through experimentation with different powders, makes standard pressure .45 ACP ammo that gives higher velocities than most other makers' +P.
 
And since 38Spl+P is a well understood situation, Ruger DOES rate the LCR as +P compatible.

Which suggests Ruger generally tries to be reasonable.
 
From wikipedia
Cartridge.......Standard pressure.......+P pressure Notes
9 × 19 mm.....35,000......................38,500 10% increase
.38 Special......17,000......................18,500 9% increase
.45 ACP..........21,000.....................23,000 9.5% increase
.38 Auto.........26,500.................... 36,500 38% increase to make .38 Super
.45 Colt..........14,000.....................25,000 79% increase, Ruger only load

9mm Proof Pressure 52,000-55,000 P.S.I.
38spl Proof Pressure 25,000-27,500 P.S.I.

The +P+ designation is not currently used by the SAAMI, but is used by some manufacturers to designate loads that exceed the +P SAAMI specification. One source lists the 9 × 19 mm +P+ loading as having a pressure of 42,000 psi, an 18% increase over the standard pressure of 35,000 psi, and the .38 Special +P+ as 22,000, a 29% increase over the standard pressure.[5]

also see http://www.frfrogspad.com/miscellk.htm#+P

Sacramento P.D issued +P+ ammo for use in issue S&W model 15's with no adverse effects S&W does not reccomend it. Officers were allowed to carry their own magnums but had to use issued +P+ ammo in them.
 
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A +P load may or may not actually do serious damage to your LCP from a few rounds, but over not too much time it will most likely do considerable damage the frame and other components. The factory springs cannot effectively handle the pounding the frame and other, small components will take from the increased recoil.

There is absolutely no need for +P ammo for self defense anyway. I consider +P a marketing ploy to the naive and insecure. I will not fire +P in my own LCP, or Browning Hi-Power.

My opinion is that for every knowledgeable and intelligent person one encounters on these web sites, there are at least 100 more who have no real idea what they are talking about. Be very wary about listening to non-engineers, lay people, and amateurs about breaking the rules with firearms and ammunition.
 
There is absolutely no need for +P ammo for self defense anyway. I consider +P a marketing ploy to the naive and insecure.
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In 38Special from a snubby, there's a lot of value in +P to make up for the short tube. Even then you have to be picky about ammo because it's right on the razor's edge between expanding and failing to expand.
 
In my older years, I only use Fed Nyclad Chief's Special ammo in my light snubbies, but in the day, I have tried +P and +P+. You may get away with very limited use of the hotter stuff in these, but, round #68 or 192 or 437 might just damage your gun and possibly you.
 
Big difference between packing an M9 into battle loaded with anemic 9mm hardball and concealed carrying a .380 pocket pistol for self defense.

.38Spl +P is SAAMI rated at 20,000psi, not 18,500. Not to be confused with .38-44 loads, which run much higher.

While there is no official .45Colt +P designation, acceptable pressures run up to 32,000. Even though some manuals only go up to 25,000.
 
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Other than .38 Special, just how many SAAMI +P cartridges are there in factory ammo? I don't recall ever seeing .380 ACP +P or .45 Colt +P on a store shelf. Has this become just a way of describing hot handloads?

If so, then talking about whether this or that gun will accept "+P" is silly. Any gun can be damaged by a hot enough handload.

(The .38 Super is not "+P". It is .38 Super, not .38ACP +P.)

Jim
 
To get back on track, I would go with what the manufacturer says and if he says it is OK to use +P then, by all means I would. Every little bit helps!
 
Jim: I don't know, ask wikipedia that is where the info was cut & pasted from I'm just the messenger I searched overpressure ammunition.
Bob
 
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