Blue Duck357
New member
Been too serious lately, looking for a fun gun for shooting and I've always liked the German WWII pistols. Any opinions on getting a shooter Luger versus a P-38?
P-38 or Luger?
- Thread starter Blue Duck357
- Start date
IamNOTaNUT
New member
Neither one is cheap in my area, but of the two the Walther has the lower price. I have fired my friend's P-38 and it seems to be a quality made weapon. I have an uncle with a P08 and it is VERY cool!
Either one would be a nice piece of history that you could also shoot.
Either one would be a nice piece of history that you could also shoot.
Mike Irwin
Staff
A P-38 will generally be a lot more reliable than a Luger, but the Luger has it all over the P-38 in the coolness factor area...
lonegunman
New member
If you are looking for a fun gun, go with the Luger.
It is much more interesting than the Walther. Love that toggle bolt.
It is much more interesting than the Walther. Love that toggle bolt.
Blue Duck357
New member
It's I matter of opinion of course, but if I was really willing to put up with the grief for coolness I'd have stuck the Broomhandle Mauser in the mix. I think it's got cool all over even the Luger.
700PSS Shooter
New member
With the P-08 Luger, you must use full power 9mm, preferably NATO spec. On many Lugers, the weaker US commercial stuff will not fully cycle the toggle system and will jam.
My P-38 was dead reliable, but only with ball ammo. Hollowpoints need not apply. It is a military gun designed for milspec ball ammo.
Luger naturally points better for me.
My P-38 was dead reliable, but only with ball ammo. Hollowpoints need not apply. It is a military gun designed for milspec ball ammo.
Luger naturally points better for me.
Wild Romanian
Moderator
P-38 or Luger
Hellow blue duck:
Here is some hard advice from 35 years of owning various handguns.
From and investment standpoint a luger or p38 is a great investment. They both are skyrocketing in value because of their use by the German military in WWI (Luger) and WWII (luger and p38). From a shooting standpoint both guns are a disaster. By all means stay away from both of them.
Lets look at both weapons and their faults.
First the Luger. Probably one of the most unreliable military pistols every produced. I have never owned or shot a Luger that was reliable. Most have terrible trigger pulls and very poor narrow sights. You can handload to make the luger shoot fairly reliably. I am speaking of about 2 to 3 jams per box of ammo. Do not believe the baloney that you must use high power ammo in Lugers. It is an old wive's tale. WW1 Lugers had weaker springs set up for the 115 grain bullet. WW11 lugers had stronger springs set up for th 125 grain bullet.
You can forget using factory ammo in a Luger, it will not work period. Overall cartridge length is critical in the Luger pistol to obtain reliable functioning. It is recommended to seat full metal jacketed bullets to 1.17" but I have seated them out as far as 1.180.
For older WW1 lugers use 5 grains of Unique with 115 grain full metal jacked bullets. or 4.5 grains with the 124 grainers.
For WW11 guns use 5.4 grains of unique for the 115 grainers and 4.9 grains of unique with the 124 grainers.
The luger is a very strong pistol and very accurate but with its poor sights and trigger pull and ureliable action it was one of the worst military pistols every adopted for military use. It was invented in 1908 and made totally obsolete in 1911 with the invention of the Browning Colt 1911 .45 pistol.
THE P38. Another gun to stay away from. Not very accurate and it almost always looses its stamp sheet metal top cover. Nothing actually holds this top cover on except friction. Even when using relatively mild loads the pistol will eventually blow off its top cover and the small spring and passive firing pin parts located underneath the cover will be catapulted into the stratosphere never to be found again.
I will admit it was a bit of an improvement over the luger but not by much. It was considered high tech for the time and throughly hated by the upper german officers staff who preferred the more prestigeous luger.
In conclusion both are becoming very valuable as collectors items. As a shooter both are guns to stay away from. W.R.
Hellow blue duck:
Here is some hard advice from 35 years of owning various handguns.
From and investment standpoint a luger or p38 is a great investment. They both are skyrocketing in value because of their use by the German military in WWI (Luger) and WWII (luger and p38). From a shooting standpoint both guns are a disaster. By all means stay away from both of them.
Lets look at both weapons and their faults.
First the Luger. Probably one of the most unreliable military pistols every produced. I have never owned or shot a Luger that was reliable. Most have terrible trigger pulls and very poor narrow sights. You can handload to make the luger shoot fairly reliably. I am speaking of about 2 to 3 jams per box of ammo. Do not believe the baloney that you must use high power ammo in Lugers. It is an old wive's tale. WW1 Lugers had weaker springs set up for the 115 grain bullet. WW11 lugers had stronger springs set up for th 125 grain bullet.
You can forget using factory ammo in a Luger, it will not work period. Overall cartridge length is critical in the Luger pistol to obtain reliable functioning. It is recommended to seat full metal jacketed bullets to 1.17" but I have seated them out as far as 1.180.
For older WW1 lugers use 5 grains of Unique with 115 grain full metal jacked bullets. or 4.5 grains with the 124 grainers.
For WW11 guns use 5.4 grains of unique for the 115 grainers and 4.9 grains of unique with the 124 grainers.
The luger is a very strong pistol and very accurate but with its poor sights and trigger pull and ureliable action it was one of the worst military pistols every adopted for military use. It was invented in 1908 and made totally obsolete in 1911 with the invention of the Browning Colt 1911 .45 pistol.
THE P38. Another gun to stay away from. Not very accurate and it almost always looses its stamp sheet metal top cover. Nothing actually holds this top cover on except friction. Even when using relatively mild loads the pistol will eventually blow off its top cover and the small spring and passive firing pin parts located underneath the cover will be catapulted into the stratosphere never to be found again.
I will admit it was a bit of an improvement over the luger but not by much. It was considered high tech for the time and throughly hated by the upper german officers staff who preferred the more prestigeous luger.
In conclusion both are becoming very valuable as collectors items. As a shooter both are guns to stay away from. W.R.
There is a lot more info under "luger questions" on harley nolden's board.
The Luger is a must have its just so.. mad scientist to have.
I think the P-38 is a better pistol, but wartime P-38's can be REALLY rough. Most lugers are by definition 'well made" but buyer beware, prices vary greatly. While a dealer was looking mine over 9a nice blue 42 code mauser, he quoted me 'four or five hundred bucks" meanwhile there was a sort of rough looking one in his case for $795. Now I don't know the provedance of his gun, but that price seemed high for a pistol that wasn't as 'pretty" as mine.
The Luger is a must have its just so.. mad scientist to have.
I think the P-38 is a better pistol, but wartime P-38's can be REALLY rough. Most lugers are by definition 'well made" but buyer beware, prices vary greatly. While a dealer was looking mine over 9a nice blue 42 code mauser, he quoted me 'four or five hundred bucks" meanwhile there was a sort of rough looking one in his case for $795. Now I don't know the provedance of his gun, but that price seemed high for a pistol that wasn't as 'pretty" as mine.
Blue Duck357
New member
Thanks for all the comments from everyone.
W.R. thanks for your help you brought up points I suspected about the Luger, but did not realize the P-38 was such a problem piece as well. I really feel I've got enough grief with things I need breaking down without adding to that with whats supposed to be my "fun" gun. Maybe I'll rethink my options, Enfields are cheap.. or maybe an AK.
W.R. thanks for your help you brought up points I suspected about the Luger, but did not realize the P-38 was such a problem piece as well. I really feel I've got enough grief with things I need breaking down without adding to that with whats supposed to be my "fun" gun. Maybe I'll rethink my options, Enfields are cheap.. or maybe an AK.
I have a couple of Lugers, an artillery model, and a standard S/42. I also have a Walther P-38. Neither are what I'd consider an "everyday" gun, but I also dispute the fact that they'll fall apart with use. I've fired a few hundred rounds through both the S/42 and the P-38, both have function well. Neither will win any accuracy contests, and in that few hundred rounds, there have been a couple of stoppages, but they're not terrible guns. If you're looking for a full-time shooter, look elsewhere. If you're looking for a cool gun, pick the Luger. I have to agree with another poster, the C96 Broomhandle is way cool, and I really like mine. However, it really sucks as a shooter, it's awkward to shoot, not very reliable, and a PITA to load with the fixed magazine. For coolness, I'd rate it as a toss-up between the Luger and the Broomhandle.
The P'08 can be fragile, but it makes up for it by being unreliable.
The P38 has got to one of the worst triggers of almost any DA/SA pistol I have fired, second only to a makarov that I tried out at Rio a while back.
There are cheaper "fun" guns out there. Try an HS2000 or a CZ 75.
The P38 has got to one of the worst triggers of almost any DA/SA pistol I have fired, second only to a makarov that I tried out at Rio a while back.
There are cheaper "fun" guns out there. Try an HS2000 or a CZ 75.
DialONE911
New member
That's kind of like saying, the Austin-Healey is fragile but makes up for it by being unreliable.
And, the MGA has the worst brakes I have ever tried, second only a Jeep.
There are cheaper fun cars out there, try a Miata or an MR-2.
There is something about a classic, car or gun, that is more fun than a new one. The new one may shoot more reliably and more accurately, but the classic will always be a classic.
Even if it jams or groups like a shotgun, you're still holding a bit of history in your hand.
And, the MGA has the worst brakes I have ever tried, second only a Jeep.
There are cheaper fun cars out there, try a Miata or an MR-2.
There is something about a classic, car or gun, that is more fun than a new one. The new one may shoot more reliably and more accurately, but the classic will always be a classic.
Even if it jams or groups like a shotgun, you're still holding a bit of history in your hand.
700PSS Shooter
New member
I think the fragility issue is not universal. After many, many rounds, my Walther P-38 is still in one piece. My P-38 is postwar. Postwar safeties and firing pins were improved.
Some of the real late WW2 P-38s were rough, especially Spreewerks. Other late war pistols were made by slave labor and were allegedly sabotaged.
This was my first handgun. I actually used it for bowling pin shoots in the 9mm class along with a fellow with a naval Luger. We got a lot of ribbing and snickers, but we could clear the table. (I did not say win
Not the best trigger, but with ball ammo it has been reliable. While never my first choice, I would trust my life with it if it was all I had.
Some of the real late WW2 P-38s were rough, especially Spreewerks. Other late war pistols were made by slave labor and were allegedly sabotaged.
This was my first handgun. I actually used it for bowling pin shoots in the 9mm class along with a fellow with a naval Luger. We got a lot of ribbing and snickers, but we could clear the table. (I did not say win
Not the best trigger, but with ball ammo it has been reliable. While never my first choice, I would trust my life with it if it was all I had.
Wild,
Regarding the P38.Has this ever actually happened to you? If so, I trust by your presence here that you were not seriously injured. Have you ever shot one? The DA trigger IS heavy, but it's a COMBAT pistol!!!!
Stampings, and castings are used extensively on most modern pistols, I have shot several thousand rounds through several of my friends P38s with NO failures. This includes BYF, AC, and several post war models. I personally own a post war P1 manufactured in 1980. TACK DRIVER!!!!! As touching the ammunition question, Federal 135gr HP produces flawless function. Please go to the following website www.p38forum.com . You will get an education in the workings of the P38.
Blades, If you read this before I could edit it, sorry for the misquote.
Regarding the P38.Has this ever actually happened to you? If so, I trust by your presence here that you were not seriously injured. Have you ever shot one? The DA trigger IS heavy, but it's a COMBAT pistol!!!!
Stampings, and castings are used extensively on most modern pistols, I have shot several thousand rounds through several of my friends P38s with NO failures. This includes BYF, AC, and several post war models. I personally own a post war P1 manufactured in 1980. TACK DRIVER!!!!! As touching the ammunition question, Federal 135gr HP produces flawless function. Please go to the following website www.p38forum.com . You will get an education in the workings of the P38.Blades, If you read this before I could edit it, sorry for the misquote.
Last edited:
The Luger, while arguably a better shooter, is a maintenance headache as well as costing Big Union Dollar$ for even an ugly "shooter", while the P-38 is arguable just as historically significant, in addition to being relatively cheap for a "shootable" copy due to a large batch that just came in through SOG or CAI. (can't remember which offhand...)
Wild Romanian
Moderator
P-38 or Luger
A Warning about the P1 (p38).
Although the P1 had improvements to its safety it has an aluminum frame. I have owned several and they are by no means tack drivers. The aluminum frame soon starts to gaul and disintigrate after only shooting as little as 500 rounds of mild reloads. The locking block on these pistols actually crashes and drags over the soft aluminum frame cause a lot of premature wear. Also expect a lot of wear on the aluminum frame rails and a corresponding decrease in accuracy as the frame to slide fit loosens up due to wear on the aluminum frame.
Walther was well aware of this problem and in later commercial model p38's (much later) they inserted a steel pin through the side of the frame that took the beating from the locking block.
The stamped sheet metal top cover in these pistols was changed from the war time configuration and was actually made worse not better making it even more likely to suffer a blow off.
The extractor on many p38's also blows out the side if hot reloads are used. Much later commercial models had an improved extractor with a steaper notch in the extractor that kept it from walking out from underneath the extractor plunger when under recoil. I have seen some extractors even blow out of the gun when using only mild reloads.
The P38 is an interesting collectors item and I currently have one 1962 high polish blue model but I am under no illusions about the reliabilty of this weapon. In all fairness to this gun in tests run on it, it did out last the S&W model 39. The S&W 39's aluminum frame was even far worse and disintigrated at a far more rapid rate than the P38 in a 5,000 round endurance test that was run on both guns.
Before you spend your hard earned money be well aware of the limitations that you must face with some but not all aluminum framed guns. W.R.
A Warning about the P1 (p38).
Although the P1 had improvements to its safety it has an aluminum frame. I have owned several and they are by no means tack drivers. The aluminum frame soon starts to gaul and disintigrate after only shooting as little as 500 rounds of mild reloads. The locking block on these pistols actually crashes and drags over the soft aluminum frame cause a lot of premature wear. Also expect a lot of wear on the aluminum frame rails and a corresponding decrease in accuracy as the frame to slide fit loosens up due to wear on the aluminum frame.
Walther was well aware of this problem and in later commercial model p38's (much later) they inserted a steel pin through the side of the frame that took the beating from the locking block.
The stamped sheet metal top cover in these pistols was changed from the war time configuration and was actually made worse not better making it even more likely to suffer a blow off.
The extractor on many p38's also blows out the side if hot reloads are used. Much later commercial models had an improved extractor with a steaper notch in the extractor that kept it from walking out from underneath the extractor plunger when under recoil. I have seen some extractors even blow out of the gun when using only mild reloads.
The P38 is an interesting collectors item and I currently have one 1962 high polish blue model but I am under no illusions about the reliabilty of this weapon. In all fairness to this gun in tests run on it, it did out last the S&W model 39. The S&W 39's aluminum frame was even far worse and disintigrated at a far more rapid rate than the P38 in a 5,000 round endurance test that was run on both guns.
Before you spend your hard earned money be well aware of the limitations that you must face with some but not all aluminum framed guns. W.R.