over/under shotgun

I still think the Citori XS Skeet with the adj comb is your best option ....and easily sold down the road if you take care of it.

$ 3,000 these days ...just isn't high end / like Zippy was saying for a specific gun ...( but Zippy can speak for himself ) ....

Citori XS Skeet is a serviceable - 100,000 shell gun -- not a fancy gun ...

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=62169&d=1281543688

Here is a photo of my XS Skeet models ( 12, 20, 28 and .410 ) ...

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Here is an XT - with some upgraded wood --- more like what Zippy was talking about ....on specific guns ...with a Gra Coil supression system, etc on it ... and the darker one is a stock XT model ..

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=61928&d=1280945127
 
A basic B-gun for starters? -- Yep, that's what I'd do.

Of course, if your bank roll is bustin' the rubber band, then there's an awful lot of really purrdy guns out there.

To answer BigJim's question:
I'm thinking of a high end gun as being 4 or 5 times the price of your basic B-guns. And, yes, the B-guns are showing up with more and more of the features once found only in the up-scale guns. With the B-gun you may get an adjustable stock -- with the custom comp gun, you get one professionally fitted to you. Perazzi if famous for turning out pro-fit stocks in one day.

My trap combo B-gun came with a plain jane fixed stock and I had it fitted with a Shockmaster. Yes, there are other stocks of this type, but Shockmaster is headquarter only a few blocks from me. If I have question, Mike is just a few minutes away.
 
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Now, another question: Since I will be shooting targets more than hunting, which model would be the best? By that I mean should I be looking at a "field gun" or "trap/skeet" gun? How much crossover is there?
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For targets, go with the target models - they tend to be a little heavier (a GOOD thing for recoil absorption), barrels tend to be a little longer (GREAT for swing follow through), and they tend to be a little more robust in certain areas (EXCELLENT for shooting tens of thousands of rounds).

As you have seen from my friend Jim - he likes a parallel comb for his shooting - not something typically found on a field gun. One generally does not find a good pistol grip either - typically a straight "English" stock or a POW (Prince of Wales) grip - which are fantastic for field use but not as favored for target use

Go to your local club and beg/borrow/rent as many guns as you can - shoot them all and see which works best for YOU - what might work well for me, Jim, Zippy, or anyone else might not even come close to what YOU need to be accurate.

Starting with a "B" or SKB gun is a great beginning - but you should look at it as such and realize that as you evolve as a shooter and decide on one discipline over another, your gun needs will also evolve to get "mission-specific" guns for those disciplines.

Good luck and good shooting
 
Some of this comes down to weight too --- many "target guns" tend toward 8 1/2 lbs or so in 12ga ...and many field guns tend to be in the 7 1/2 lbs range. Carrying a gun around for "sporting clays" - and I use a handpush Rugged Gear cart ....vs trudging thru the brush all day - is a different thing as well.

I still believe you need to shoot a gun that "Fits" for everything ...to be at your best ...but my personal primary uses are on a Skeet, Trap or Sporting Clays field ....vs busting brush.

O/U's from SKB, Mossberg, Ruger, Remington, Tristar, etc ....are all guns that some guys say they are having good luck with. There are also a number of stories out there / where there have been some issues ... I'm glad to hear Ted likes his Mossberg ...and I hope it holds up for him ...but very few people will tell you they had an issue with a Beretta or a Browning - and it wasn't fixed / even if the gun has gone over 100,000 shells.

An entry level Citori - like the Browning Lightning / or an entry level Beretta ...for around $1,500 are both very strong guns ( but they still have angled combs / and no built in adjustability ). You can do some things - go to an adj butt pad plate ( a Jones pad ) - and a stick on comb pad ...and make it work ...or consider some other models.

Some semi-autos / not to drag this to another direction ... have some adjustability with shims between the receiver and the stock, changeable comb pads, etc --- and some don't ... / but the point I'm trying to make is most of us are not the "typical body size" ...and for the gun to hit where we look - many of us need some adjustability ....or at 30 yards ....the point of impact might be 10" high / or 6" low .....or 6" low and 6" left. You can't tell by holding a gun up in a store / you're only going to be able to tell by going to the "patterning board" ...unless you really know what stock dimensions fit you. Experienced shooters like my friends OneOunce and Zippy - know exactly what they need for drop at comb, drop at heel, length of pull - and what they like in weight, etc .../ and I've figured it out for myself with trial and error / mostly error ...:barf: ...

But there are a lot of issues we've all thrown up in the air here - trying to help you ....so when you do make your decision / we hope its a gun you love / have it for 3 generations ....its not a waste of money ...and its trouble free ... So we all approach this a little differently ....

Wouldn't it be great if you could go to a retail gun store --- and have this discussion with a guy behind the counter vs ...."oh that guns just fancy wood and a big name, and its a waste of money ...buy this one ....it'll be great"....but it is not going to happen, except in rare cases ....not even in "fancy" stores like Cabela's .... With rare exceptions / the guys working the counter know little more - than price ...(but they'll all have an opinion ).

Its a priveledge to have knowledgeable shooters like many of these guys around that have responded ...and none of us are trying to sell you anything - or say the only way to do it ..is my way !!
 
Thanks so much, guys. I went to Cabela's today and handled a bunch of o/u's. I totally see what you all were saying. I didn't leave with a shotgun. I am going to have to do some more hands-on testing before I make my purchase. I did look at a Benelli SBE II, and I really liked it. It had adjustable stock shims, etc., and comes in left-hand. I am definitely going to get one of those. But I still want an o/u shotgun, so I am going to take my time and find one that works for me.
 
Big Jim, it was the Citoris that fit me the best. After looking at your photos, I remembered that those were the ones I really liked. Whomever said that if one fits, the other probably wouldn't was correct.
 
Glad to hear you're making progress ....remember to have fun with this process. :D

Another gun I like very much ...and is really versatile --- is the Benelli SuperSport in a 30" barrel. Its a carbon fibre stock, with the comfort tech system in it / bright receiver ( but you can tape that over for waterfowling too ). It has the shims / plus the added option of different comb pads and different recoil pads / both of which pop on and off.

My buddy Zippy thinks they're ugly ...and they might be ...but its a heck of a gun / and Cabela's locally here is retailing them new for around $ 1,875.

I use it as my "rain" gun / when I don't want to subject one of my O/U's to heavy rain --- and I use it as my 'Travel' gun - does everything pretty well - a little skeet, some sporting, some bird hunting ....

Its another option ...sold as a "sporting clays" gun / but a versatile gun. Remember all these companies marketing depts - have their ideas about what best designs fit what games .......so there are "skeet" guns, "sporting guns", "Trap guns", "field guns" ...and for the most part ...its just marketing jibberish ... I use a "Skeet" gun for most everything I do / the Citori XS Skeet with 30" barrels / but the Benelli Super Sport is a good all around gun too - in my opinion...

Zippy and OneOunce will have their input as well ...and hopefully - together - we don't confuse the daylights out of you !!
 
I would concur on the Browning and Berettas as a Clays gun. I have too many of both and they are great skeet/clays guns. You can try one out first without breaking the bank. You can get a Citori Skeet, the earlier ones with the fixed skeet chokes. Those can be had for very a very reasonable price.
The one comp skeet gun that wasn't mentioned was a Kolar. I've been shooting one since '07 and I enjoy it very much, but they are strictly for clay targets only.
 
My buddy Zippy thinks they're ugly
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Let's be fair, big guy, you gotta admit, I was very impressed by the mechanics of your Benelli -- classic Italian design ingenuity. Did I actually opine it was ugly looking, or perhaps just that it looks like it might be more at home on Mars? ;)

bjl333,
If I was in the market for another comp Skeet gun, I'd check-out the Kolar. I've had very good luck with their products and customer service in the past. But, I don't think a Kolar (or other true comp gun) is the best selection for a first O/U. You need a lot of target trigger time before you can begin to appreciate the Kolar's subtleties. Let's face it, the Kolar is a fairly new contender in the comp gun arena, and they "borrowed" a lot of the more popular features of the top comp guns.
 
I don't think a Kolar (or other true comp gun) is the best selection for a first O/U.
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I think that would depend on whether you are a competitive and serious shooter - even if new, someone will want to become "one with the gun", and the Kolar will last long enough to allow that to happen.

One of my snowbird shooting buddies (from Wisconsin no less), has the Kolar, with the sub gauge tube set as well. He has averaged, between registered and practice, approximately 25,000 rounds per year. He has had the gun for, IIRC, 8 years. No issues with the gun, it weighs 10.5 pounds and he shoots 7/8oz loads running 1145fps, so recoil is even less than my 3/4 oz loads in my Browning.
 
I was just picking on Zippy a little ...but I know the Benelli Super Sport is an "acquired look" .../but the funny thing is all of my grandkids think its a very cool gun ...and they like shooting them...

I'm going to take exception to the comment that Ruger and Browning are roughly equivalent / and that Beretta is better ... I think Browning has been well tested over time to be a 250,000 shell gun / and today, there is no way that a Ruger can stand up to that claim.

I'm a big fan of Browning / and own many - but its primarily because they "fit" me. If the Beretta's fit me - I'd probably own a few ---but they don't.

In my view, Beretta has a tendancy to be thinner in the grip area / and in the stock overall. The Citori tends to be a little heavier in the grip area / sometimes with a palm swell, which I like, -- but just a little bulkier and heavy / which I like. Same thing on the forend / the Citori's tend to be a little bulkier and heavier. To me the heavier gun / swings very nimbly and smoothly -- but at 6'5" and 290 lbs I'm a little bigger than the average Buffalo ... and the Beretta's are different / not better or worse - just different.

Not all Browning Citori's are the same for fit - one example is the current 625 series ( formerly the 525, 425, etc ). They are beautiful guns / and I had one of the first 525's built ( had to have it ) ...but what I didn't realize at that time, was there was way too much drop at the comb for me. As I got around more Skeet shooters - they could all see the issue. The gun was literally beating the daylights out of me / because it was pushing the meat of my face into my cheek bone as it recoiled ...because there was too much drop. For me - a parallel comb gun - was the way to go. Even on my older Citori field guns ( today's Lightning ) ...with that much drop on an angled comb .... I developed a shooting outfit / that made the gun fit just right / so my face was on the comb just at the right spot - so it hit where I looked. The outfit - was my shooting vest, a fatigue sweater under it, and a heavy shirt under the sweater. If I added a heavy coat -- it moved me back too far ( causing muzzle to drop ) ....if I shot in just a T shirt it moved me forward too much and it caused the muzzle to rise as I mounted the gun ...

My point is not all " Citori's " - fit me / or anyone else. I need to shoot parallel comb guns / and I prefer guns with adj combs. The stock Browning with a parallel comb / without the adj comb - actually fits me almost perfect ...but I like to adjust it just a little bit more.

I choose to shoot stock guns ...like the XS Skeet vs having a stock custom made to "fit" me ...partly because my weight goes up and down 30 lbs or so between seasons ... Even if I were to buy a Blaser, a Perazzi, a Kolar or a Krieghoff --- I would order the gun with what is considered a parallel Trap style comb / with an adj comb insert built in. I would not want a custom shaped hard comb ...carved and shaped to fit me at one given point ...and then I drop 15 lbs or gain 20 lbs ... and it wouldn't fit me ...

Browning and Beretta are both fine guns / although I do think the barrel to receiver connection on the Browning is much stronger. Any model in the Beretta or Browning line of guns will easily give you 100,000 shells with no problems / and probably 250,000 shells with no issues.

I actually won a new O/U Beretta 686 ?? at a shoot in Oregon a few years back ... and took it to the retailer that was sponsoring the shoot - and asked him politely to allow me to trade it in for a Browning XS Skeet model. We worked out a deal ...had a great conversation ....and I've since bought 3 or 4 other Brownings from him.... It doesn't make the Beretta a bad gun / but it certainly is no better gun than a Citori either - in my opinion. In my opinion - they are just different !!
 
Just a thought. A few weeks back I decided to give the O/U another try. I went to my local Academy store and bought a 20ga Yildiz for $399+tax. I had done this once before and had 750 rds thru the first yildiz before selling it. This one I only have 4 rounds thru but I like it better than the first, I think because it fits better. I'm still about 3 birds under my 12ga SXS average but that could be partially to do with the difference between my 1oz 12ga loads vs the light 3/4 I'm throwing now.
It's nowhere near the quality of a B gun, but when I decide I don't like the O/U (like I always do) I'm not out a couple of grand.
As a side note, I was shooting in a squad last week with a fella who had a new Citori. I've never seen a gun have that many FTF's. At first we figured it was his reloads, but it did the same thing with some of my reloads (and we all know I never make a bad shell :D) and some factory rem STS. By no means am I saying the Citori is a bad gun, my mammy only raised one fool and I call him bro. But it goes to show anyone can let a lemon slip thru.
 
all I can say is, I once used a Browning Citori to shoot trap and it was a pleasure to handle. if I were to buy an O/U i'd definitely get a Citori :D
 
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