Out of my element here - need your help
- Thread starter KJVH
- Start date
Winchester_73
New member
A few things
Early waffenamts were only Eagle above the number, IE 135. The "WaA" came later for waffenamts. I'm not so sure that this gun would have an Eagle 135 since it was not produced in a German factory, in the sense that while they took it over, it was originally a Czech factory. In P38s for example, Eagle 135 is specifically a Mauser acceptance proof, while Eagle 359 is Walther and Eagle 88 was Spreewerke. This also holds true for Walther PPs and PPKs. While I imagine non-mauser made guns *may* have had Eagle 135, I believe that mark to be Mauser specific. On the other hand, I know the Norweigian 1911s and FN high powers did have Waffenamts with numbers. Perhaps that is because they were standard Heer issue vs a 32 acp being more for a specialty soldier, political leader, officer, etc?
For a CZ 27, I only know of 2 acceptance types. The standard army acceptance was on the right side, with an eagle, above the grip and another on the slide on the right. No numbers that I can remember. The other type is the CZ 27 with Eagle C proofmark at the top of the triggerguard on the left. Any of these may or may not have have the CZ eagle with a year referring to production. I recently sold a CZ police gun aka Eagle C proof. I got it on a trade and did not know the rarity.
When they tweaked the designs, it was more for mass production as the gun itself was fit for duty regardless. They would usually remove certain features as a shortcut for production purposes. Compare the pre war vs wartime hi power and pre war vs war time radom. Even the CZ which was mostly the same, was often given a phosphate finish since an actual blued finish was not necessary.
Early waffenamts were only Eagle above the number, IE 135. The "WaA" came later for waffenamts. I'm not so sure that this gun would have an Eagle 135 since it was not produced in a German factory, in the sense that while they took it over, it was originally a Czech factory. In P38s for example, Eagle 135 is specifically a Mauser acceptance proof, while Eagle 359 is Walther and Eagle 88 was Spreewerke. This also holds true for Walther PPs and PPKs. While I imagine non-mauser made guns *may* have had Eagle 135, I believe that mark to be Mauser specific. On the other hand, I know the Norweigian 1911s and FN high powers did have Waffenamts with numbers. Perhaps that is because they were standard Heer issue vs a 32 acp being more for a specialty soldier, political leader, officer, etc?
For a CZ 27, I only know of 2 acceptance types. The standard army acceptance was on the right side, with an eagle, above the grip and another on the slide on the right. No numbers that I can remember. The other type is the CZ 27 with Eagle C proofmark at the top of the triggerguard on the left. Any of these may or may not have have the CZ eagle with a year referring to production. I recently sold a CZ police gun aka Eagle C proof. I got it on a trade and did not know the rarity.
When they tweaked the designs, it was more for mass production as the gun itself was fit for duty regardless. They would usually remove certain features as a shortcut for production purposes. Compare the pre war vs wartime hi power and pre war vs war time radom. Even the CZ which was mostly the same, was often given a phosphate finish since an actual blued finish was not necessary.
mapsjanhere
New member
If I remember correctly the Waa stamp numbers are specific to lead inspectors. Since most inspectors staid at one facility for a long time, they have become associated with facilities, but usually there are a couple or more different numbers for the same facility over the course of the war.
Jim Watson
New member
I think they set them up with German sight settings, slings, and bayonet lugs, as close to K98k as feasible.
They also took a Hungarian non-Mauser and modified it to take 8x57 in Mauser clips, accept a Mauser bayonet, and changed the stock to look as much like a Mauser as possible with a split bridge action and two piece stock.
Winchester_73
New member
Yes, but once again, since they already were making mausers in this fashion (aka 98k), this would speed up production while making them easier to use IE standardization of parts. I can't believe that a German Army cared enough about sights, slings and bayonets to alter the design from the factory to change it just to match their pre war offerings. They changed it for mass production, so that their soldiers could have as near to a standard arm as possible, while making an arm that was quick and cheap to produce. Of course a hungarian Mauser could not be the same as a 98k, but as close as possible and an easy as possible to make, were their major points of emphasis, IMO, was what they were after. They had to think this way, since the odds were against them right after Operation Barbarosa and the declaration of war on the USA. They didn't have OUR factories, so they did what they HAD to do.
Ignition Override
New member
My father-in-law just passed away weeks ago, and had access to various handguns etc in Herman Goering's Haus in Bavaria.
John spent a career with the Army Quartermasters, and was voluntarily attached to the 101st from May '44 until the end of the war.
He personally "liberated" several handguns from Goering's Haus, but gave them away as favors to people a few years after the war
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KJVH: My condolences, and you are very fortunate to have that handgun.
My father-in-law was the same age as your Dad, almost 89.
Did your Dad ever go back to England or Europe after the war?
John spent a career with the Army Quartermasters, and was voluntarily attached to the 101st from May '44 until the end of the war.
He personally "liberated" several handguns from Goering's Haus, but gave them away as favors to people a few years after the war
.KJVH: My condolences, and you are very fortunate to have that handgun.
My father-in-law was the same age as your Dad, almost 89.
Did your Dad ever go back to England or Europe after the war?
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Please do NOT sell it. You can own it legally in upstate NY, but you do have to jump through some hoops that do not apply in most other states. It is part of your family's history, so IMHO that should be preserved and handed on.Hermannr said:
Which brings us to the suggestion about "inheritance." It is correct that a firearm received as a bequest is about the ONLY exception to the requirement that all interstate transfers of handguns must go through an FFL. The technical issue is that, to be yours through bequest, the firearm must be specifically bequeathed to you in your father's will. For example, if he left everything to your mother and SHE decided she doesn't like guns so she'd pass it along to you -- then YOU would not be receiving the gun as a bequest, YOU would be receiving it as a transfer from another living person -- just the same as if you bought it from a total stranger.
If the gun wasn't mentioned in the will at all, then it would be considered part of your father's "residuary estate" (which, in ordinary peoplespeak, means "everything else that I didn't specifically mention"). If the gun is part of the residuary estate, and you are a named heir to a share of the residuary estate, you can probably be deemed to have inherited the gun. I would want to confirm that with an attorney. The key point is that, if there's no way under the will to construe that the gun was bequeathed to you -- you cannot claim you received it as an inheritance.
All this may be moot anyway, because you live in NY state. I suspect that NY makes you jump through hoops to bring in a firearm even if you received it as an inheritance, so do your homework.
It's a fascinating pistol. Whatever is required to bring it home, it's worth the effort.