Out of box 1911 reliability?

H

HCKJMN

New member
The reason I do not have a 1911 style 45ACP is that I have always heard that out of box reliability is hit and miss. I recently purchased a Glock 21c over a Para Ordnance p14 Limited. My main reason for doing so was that the Glock has an (almost) impecable reputation for out of box reliability. I know a lot of people love their Para's however, I still think Para's overall quality controll is still a bit hit and miss. The same can be said for Colt. I just can't see paying 700+ for a gun that needs to see the gunsmith before it works right. I understand that (some) Kimber models come with outstanding out of box reliability but are also very expensive. In conclusion, for my money the more modern designs like Glock, HK, Ruger ect come from the factory ready for duty while a lot (if not most) 1911's have to be tinkered with.

By the way I have owned a Colt Gold cup back in the early 80's and it was pretty reliable from the box though not perfect.
 
Honestly, I can say that I have had no more reliability problems with 1911s than I have with any other gun. I think part of the problem with 1911s and their reputation for reliability is the many many brands of the same design out there and the vast numbers of 1911s out there as compared to other models. Also, 1911 PARTS are prolific, so amateur smiths have put tens of thousands of them together and tens of thousands more modified or "improved."
Add to that the dozens of aftermarket mag manufacturers AND the tendency of hardcore 1911 afficianados to use light-loaded wadcutters to try to squeeze more accuracy out of their guns and you get a lot of reports of unreliability.
Me, I buy major brand guns, in good shape if not new. I wring them out pretty thoroughly, but I use only factory-loaded FMJ and JHP rounds (I have no use for wadcutters as I practice for defense rather than competition). I use only Wilson Combat mags in single stack 1911s and if I have any modifications made (I rarely do) I have them done by a reputable smith.
I have had over two dozen different 1911s of various makes and none of them had major reliability problems. The ones that had jams at ALL (and those were only a few) just didn't like a particular brand of JHP.
I know my experience is not universal, but together with the experiences of the many people I know who own and shoot 1911s leads me to believe it is not rare either.
 
I bought a Colt 1991A1 back in 1996 just to experiment with. Over the course of three months I shot 2,500 rounds of various ammo through it. This included factory ammo and commercial reloads. I had three malfunctions. And one of them was magazine related. I honestly didn't expect this. Hell I've seen as many malfunctions with the Sig, Beretta,and Glock. Maybe I got that one of a thousand type of gun.Maybe Colt quality went up. I don't know.But I was,and am impressed.
 
My Springfield Loaded Full Size has had 500 rounds of .45 fired and about two bricks of .22 with a conversion slide. Not a single malfunction. Incredible from the .22 aspect. Gun is box stock, except the FLGR has been replaced with the GI plug for ease of stripping.
 
I have a Stainless, Springfield 1911A1 (pre Loaded). It had a tendency to misfeed right out of the box, but after a few hundred rounds it has performed flawlessly. I guess it needed a break-in period as the tolerances may have been a little tight at first. The gun is very accurate and 100% reliable now, even with my 200 grain SWC lead reloads. I wouldn't hesitate to carry it for self defense.

Pilot
 
After considerable experience with 1911-style pistols I've concluded that Kimbers are the very best value. Some require different magazines, but the guns themselves have been reliable and accurate, more so than the Para's and Springfields I've tested.

The Kimbers start (in the real world) under $600.
 
New gun = break-in period before defensive use. Find a favorite load & stick with it. 1911s are plenty reliable; John Browning designed it that way. My duty '91-A1 has beenjust great for 6 years.
Bob
 
I have both a full-sized Kimber stainless Custom/Classic and a full-sized Springfield stainless "loaded" 1911A1. Both experienced about a 1 percent jam rate for the first <500 rounds, but zero thereafter. I believe the Springfield is the best .45 ACP value -- including Colt, Kimber, H&K USP, Glock and Sig. It is reliable, durable, and well manufactured. It is also the most accurate of my five .45s.

I trust it completely; it is my daily carry handgun.
 
out of the box fighting

owned two colts. one broke while firing right out of the box (1991-a1) and the other "colt enhanced gov't" would not fire out of the box at all. the trigger bow channel in the frame was not fully cut and the trigger would not move with a magazine inserted. never tried a colt again.
kimber 1911's?
i owned three with no problems at all once i found the right magazine/ammo combination (this was the key i found out). i no longer own any 1911's.

cz-75? no problems at all (21,000 rounds fired so far) and better in every regard. shoots 9mm so you can afford to shoot more bullets as well (training). right out of the box it is ready to go all for under 400 dollars american.
 
I've found they often need a little tweaking, and not necessarily extensive (or expensive) tweaking. My stock Delta Elite has gone 700 rounds since new, without a malfunction. Detonics Combat Master required extractor tune and new mag springs, having since gone 600+ rounds with one failure to eject. Semi-custom Colt M1911A1 has had one failure to feed in over 5000 rounds (throated barrel and tuned extractor only feed/function work). Some guns have magazine preferences and ammo preferences, but I haven't had a gun that couldn't be made happy.
 
Some of the higher end 1911's do need a short break in period because their tolerances are much tighter then box stock 1911's. Hence, the claim to improved accuracy.

However, some box stock 1911's also need a short break in period. After that break in period, many people discover that the "1911 is unreliable" myth to be completely false. This doesn't mean that there isn't a lemon every once in awhile. Every company will put out a lemon sooner or later.

I've had Springfields that jammed every single mag until I replaced the mag. Presto, no more jams. I've had Colts that would shoot everything I put through it without a problem.

Is the 1911 reliable? Yep. If it wasn't, there wouldn't be such a huge following. It doesn't matter to me what you buy or what you shoot. It will have no effect on my everyday life. I just hate seeing a fine firearm design get engulfed in the unreliable myth.

ymmv
 
1911 relaibility......

Hey as my name implies I'am a huge .45 fan:)
Anyway I'll give credit to the statements that some have had 1911's that wouldn't run for sh*t. These are the exception not the rule. I have 4 1911 type guns.
A 1918 made Colt.
A Spingfield Armory "Loaded".
A Colt 1991-A1
A Stainless Colt 1991-A1
I have shot many,many more.
The only problem with any of my guns?
My 1918 made Colt was failing to extract. It turns out the extractor was worn just enough to lose it's grip on the case.I bought a Wilson extractor dropped it in and problem solved.All my other guns run flawlessly. I always take a gun apart before I buy it. To make sure nothings been messed up.If the shop won't let me strip it or strip it for me I won't buy there. This is important with 1911's more than any other gun I've found. People seem to tinker with the 1911 more than say a Sig or a Glock etc...
Also once I get it home I detail strip and clean it well,then lube it. Then I throw the cheap(usually) mags in the garbage and use Colt factory or Wilson 7 round mags.
Then I shoot 200 rounds of FMJ or BALL ammo through the gun.
Any and all feed related problems disappear 99.9% of the time.
If not I shoot some more or simply polish the ramp while I'am watching TV or sitting here reading on TFL.
This solves the other 0.9% of feed problems with the 1911.
I had a friend who bought a 1911 SA "LOADED" just like mine fired 100 rounds of ball through it with the factory mags.
Ouhhh shudder:( Then deemed it a POS and THREW it on the ground. I picked it up made sure it was unloaded and stripped it. I told him to go have lunch and bring me back some too. The firing line is not a place to get ill tempered. So while he was gone I cleaned his gun,something he had not done very well if at all. I lubed it I threw his mag in the range bag and shoved a Wilson 7 round in it. Me and my brother in 30 minutes fires about 250rounds through it.The feed problem was gone. When he came back he thought I was the best thing since canned beer.
When the 1911 doesn't work it's because of 3 things...
A- Crappy mags
B- Someone who knew what they were doing "fixed" it up.
C- The person is trying to fit rounds that would choke the mighty Mississippi through a chamber made for BALL ammo while using CRAPPY NAGS. SEE A>
My brother is a huge Glock man ha has 4 of them. I have a few too. Now you here people say the Glock runs "out of the box" and it does but here is something to ponder..
Glocks are quite loose.You can see light through the slide where it meets the frame. I can't even see light through the frame of my 1918-1911 and it is looser than vegas showgirl.This is the nature of the Glock design.
I'am not bashing Glock I have a Glock 19 I love.
Also only one company makes Glock and thats Glock.
Only one company makes the mags that come with your factory Glock,Glock.
If Glocks were built by 5 or 6 companies and the patent expired,would they be as reliable as they are?
If the same 5 or 6 companies has 10 other companies building various small parts and mags for them to put in those guns would they still be 100$ reliable?
Would you here of many lemons? Oh yes you would.
This is what happened to the 1911 in the past 60 or 70 years or so. Something to think about.
If you have any other questions fell fre to E Mail me at
john945@hotmail.com

Sorry for the rant,45automan
 
Colt Gumts and Goldcups ...

with Colt factory mags or GI mags work 100% for me with hardball ammunition. If you want a bullseye pistol and shoot light loaded SWCs, like most 45 shooters, you have to be prepared to deal with some ambiguity. That's where a $2500 pistolsmith tuned bullseye pistol will show up a box stock Colt, but that's the only place.

The same comments hold true for a US Property Model of 1911A1. Use hardball and GI or Colt mags and you have got a major league shooter.

45Automan's comments were right on where he said they were built all over the place by all kinds of companies using all kinds of parts and that people who "knew how fixed them."

I will not buy a used pistol that has any suspect work on them. I would prefer a six pound trigger pull to a 3 pounder done on somebody's kitchen table.
 
The REAL Model 1911s and Model 1911A1s had a very good reputation for out of the box reliability. Today's cast clones, made by the Momandpop Gun and Beer Can Co., have problems. Maybe the fifth world parts suppliers don't have good quality control.

Jim
 
My ParaOrdnance P12 and P13 have been champs of reliability. I have had only one malf in .45acp between them with about 7000 rounds, and that was with a light loaded SWC.

Now I do have a BarSto 400 CorBon barrel for the P12 and that sucker was TIGHT. I had to work that bad boy like I was Monica Lewinksy and it was Bill Clinton's-you know what I mean. But about 100 rounds (with 5 nose dive jams) break in, even the 400 CB converted P12 has proven to be reliable.

I had this used series 70s Colt that I thought was a steal. . . and I see why, that thing wouldn't feed worth a crap.

Now my Para P10 was a jam-a-matic for me. I couldn't get a hold of that little sucker (sorta like I was Monica again and it was Bill I guess! :D) to keep a good grip on it. My girlfriend at the time thought the gun was a dream, it never jammed on her.

I got the Pearce grip for the Para mag and the jamming went away, but I had lost faith in the pistol and eventually traded it. With that trade I am procured myself a .375 H&H Magnum Remington Classic 700, well after I traded my Delta (which I what I got for the P10) in for the H&H.

Derek
 
1911 reliability? HA!

I find it interesting that most folk defending the 1911 say "well I did this or that, then it worked flawlessly." I think most shooters today don't want to have to do "this or that" in order to get a pistol working. Many shooters like myself just want to essentially take the pistol out of the box and have it work fine. This is the case with many of todays "modern" firearms. The term modern does not apply to the 1911. It's the 21st century folks, time to give up those antiques and quit touting them as being the best defense hangun ever made. In their day, yes I would agree that they were. I've owned many 1911's and enjoyed tinkering with each one of them, but that's precisely what they are...tinkering guns. Get yourself a Glock, Sig, HK...etc.
 
They are NOT for everyone.......

I completely agree with you Snubnose. A 1911 is NOT "God's gift to the shooting community" as some fanatics claim. It is a great design, but NOT FOR EVERYONE.

OTOH, my advice is use what you like best. If you are a 1911 fan, then buy 1911's. If you prefer modern pistols, then buy modern pistols. There is no need to argue over which is better (since "better" is determined by the individial user).
 
Carry what you want, Snubnose, but don't tell me my business. Never had a reliability problem with any 1911 and never had to have one worked on to make it reliable.
 
1911 pattern guns. Well I shot them for 22 years in service, never had a problem except for magazines. And some of those guns were older than I was. My Series 70 Combat Commander ran anything I wanted to feed it for close to 25,000 rounds before I did ANYTHING to it but clean it and replace the recoil spring twice. Then I decided to "play" with it. No changes for reliability or to fix anything, just things I wanted (or thought I did - a lot of the new parts ended up in the drawer with the old ones back in). I did have to replace the slide stop, last year. Estimated near 100 K rounds fired and it just flat wore out. My Kimber Ultra CDP only has about 1000 rounds so far, no problems at all except for the factory mag. It works, but won't feed the first round if you load Silvertips (everything else seems to work). The three Colt mags I bought on sale feed everything just fine. Hmm, I guess the factory mag on the Commander went somewhere, I've worn out a few mags in that one and don't really remember when it went. Currently using MetalForm mags in it as they seem to suit it better than anything else I've tried. I have noticed that even some of the high end 1911 makers seem to skimp on the magazines. Don't understand the logic there as most 1911 problems aren't the gun, they're the mag.
 
Actually, based on my experience, the "out of the box" 1911 is more reliable than the out of the box Glock. I have purchased three 1991A1s, two basic Kimbers, and one CCO over the last several years, and they were all "out of the box" reliable. (Why so many? I am a hopeless gun trader. I still have one 1991A1 and the CCO.)

I have also purchased approximately the same number of Glocks. Of the Glocks, I had one that could not get through a magazine without choking (and yes, I tried different magazines), and one which was utterly reliable, but I have seen shotguns shoot tighter patterns than it would group. (I have none of the Glocks left.)

Is it possible to buy 1911 with reliabity problems? Yes.

Is it possible to buy a Glock or other "modern" pistol with reliability problems? Yes.

Is a quality 1911 any more likely to have reliability out of the box than a "modern" pistol? No.
 
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