Our Second Pig Mafia

Yithian

New member
This is a long story, so bear with me.
What a great day.

ATTT (armedtotheteeth), my hunting buddy, and I were at his folk's ranch, shooting at the 100 yard target range.
They have feral-pig problems. Big time.
ATTT had purchased a new set of scope rings and needed to sight in again, before our hunt.
After about a half hour playing around, ATTT is in the third shot of another string of ten. His ear plugs are in. Mine are not.

I'm pretty much already deaf, and a tad stupid.
So, unless ATTT is shooting the AR-30, I tend to go without. With earplugs in, I truly hear nothing but my own permanent ear-ringing.

ATTT is squeezing on his third shot and I hear pigs scream and snort.
I mean it was unmistakable, and loud. I figured about 400 - 600 yards away.
ATTT, turned away from firing, sees me turn and grab my rifle.
"What was that?" (He HEARD them thru his earplugs!)
"Pigs!", I said.
He grabbed two thirty-round mags he keeps loaded, and caught up to me about 300 yards away, toward the sound.
No pigs.
We get about 500 yards from the range-bench and we are at the fence.
No pigs.
There is such a hole in the fence that it reminds me of an igloo entrance.
We heard them fight again... on the other side of the fence.
We jumped it.

It's not that ATTT's family doesn't get along with the neighbor. It's just there are issues involved with the guys donkey's. Everyone wants the pigs under control. The damage hogs do around there is incalculable.
So, we go traipsing thru the neighbors property.

It is Natural. Trees, brush, wild grasses... Nothing in that plot is altered from the way it looked before 'white man' showed up.
You could walk up to a pile of oaks and not see the pigs in the shadows.
We took it rather quick since it was obvious that it was well more than a pair of pigs. We found a small pond/tank that was nearly dried up. That's when we lost the sound of them.
Did we spook them?
Were they in the stand of trees and underbrush, just up the hill?
We sat there for a few minutes and ATTT heard splashing water.
"They are at the South Tank," he said.
That's back on his family's property, where it wraps around the corner of the neighbors.
It was relatively in-line with our path. Just a 15 degree shift to the right.
We split slightly, and head the 380 yards to the tank. Crossed the other fence and we spot a rather large skunk.
Finally sneak up on the tank, and cows with calves look us over.
A deer sprinted out from the trees to our left, up on the top edge of the tank and disappeared over the far side of the tank.
It was the cows splashing around.
We sat there for a while, waiting and listening.
No pig sign.

I keep remembering the phrase, "Being Skunked."
It happens quite often. Head out pig hunting and see nothing but skunks.

There was one other time we heard pigs fighting, last October.
We tracked that Mafia family for a mile and nearly passed them in the overly tall brush.
There was alot of rain last year, and I kept walking thru cactus hidden under the grasses. ATTT saw them after I passed them and opened up from 10 yards away.
I had a 30-30, and ATTT was using his trusty Bushmaster.
He dropped his first one and went into "UmGawa" mode.
All I saw was pigs backs like whales humping thru water.
More than a dozen. Who knows if there were piglets.
A 180Lb'er charged me and I shot it in the face with a LeveRevolution... from ten feet.
I did stop its charge, but it didn't DRT (die right there). It turned and ran away, faceless and screaming.
I decided right there that I needed more gun.
I went around the 'folly' to try and find more pigs that John hit. Didn't find anything but my pigs flesh, in strips, like worms, hanging from the branches of a large mesquite bush.
Only one pig was harvested that day.
ATTT's first pig-hit, pre-"UmGawa". A sow.
I ended up purchasing a AK to pig-hunt with. "If I can't get bigger bullets, I'm gonna throw more of them."
It's a Saiga 308, I named 'Kindness'.

Sorry. Back to the more current hunt...

Depressed that we got skunked again, we headed back toward the range. We were hoping the pigs didn't get our scent from our passing thru their 'yard'.
We got near where we crossed the fence previously and...
Sure enough, they screamed out again.
Man! They must have a sow in heat.
That's too much fighting for just bickering over grasses or a teet.
ATTT wanted to go up the fenceline to where we crossed it before.
I was hesitant. I wanted to follow the sound directly. Straight-line it.
The pigs screamed again and ATTT was over the fence before I was.

Second pass thru the neighbors property...
We took several breaks, to wait for sounds this time. Sitting took us maybe twenty minutes, combined.
We were downwind again.
The had no clue we were there.
That's when we came up on a huge oak stand and no sounds of fighting.
Then, even I could hear scruff. Like something was moving.
I looked at ATTT and made vocal note of the fact that I didn't have a bayonet.
These trees were perfect for pigs. They were large and full of leaves. The brambles and briars were slanted like a tent to form a second canopy about three feet high.
We slowly grew balls, and slithered our way in.
It was a pig family home in there.
No leaves. No twigs. Soft beach sand that was deep and cool.
But no pigs.
We found ourselves walking in pig beds.

We slowly swept thru the trees, using the pig 'hallways'.
That's when ATTT spotted them. About 15 of them.
They were 300 yards out into a straw field that butted up against, what we could now see, was a treeline along the fields edge.
We were in that treeline.
One hundred yards to our right was ATTT's family property.
The pigs were out in the field, about 10 yards away from the same property fenceline.
They were only 315 yards from the South Tank. We didn't hear them then, because we weren't downwind of them at the Tank.
Turns out, we were hearing them from a total of 1300 yards away. Nearly three-quarters of a mile, from the range to their fighting area.
ATTT started toward them, cutting straight thru the field.
I went for the fenceline because there were trees along the fence, and they would cut loose for it first, to try and get away.
We walked right up on them.
ATTT got within 50 yards and stopped dead still.
I got within 25 yards of them along the fence and knelt down.
I didn't see it but ATTT had a 60lb boar, 30 yards in front of him, trying to figure out what he was.
That was the first one to go down.
Five pigs turned and swung for the fenceline. The rest cut for the field, to our left.
I shot the lead sow running for my fence in the head. 140Lbs.
The others that were headed for the fence turned again and headed out into the field.

ATTT went into "UmGawa" mode, again, and emptied his magazine.
I was too busy holding back my laughing, and trying to aim.
A cousin of ATTT's has the same "UmGawa" sense. He describes it as, "Shooting as fast as you can, until the dirt explosions catch up to the pigs."

I fired 7 shots with Kindness, recovered two brass.
Five of my shots hit, total. Only one of those 'hits' dropped another pig.
ATTT's 'Poodle-Shooter' is handloaded with 55gr V-Max's.
I shoot 110gr V-Max's from my AK.
It was interesting listening to the reports of the weapons 'hit' the targets.
ATTT's 'hits' sounded like a sledgehammer hitting a ripe melon.
Mine sounded like a "Sledge-O-Matic" slapping watermelons in midair.

It was astounding to me that these pigs were taking so many hits and still running... except two.
ATTT had dropped a second pig, a 100Lb boar.
I had dropped a second pig, a 244Lb boar.
ATTT walked out into the field, after he overcame his "UmGawa" episode, and was worried about his ammo supply.
He forgot he had a second Mag.
The large boar was trying to get up and run away.
I had hit it in the high stomach area and destroyed 8 inches of vertebra, et al.
ATTT finished it with one to the head.
I checked my first pig, the sow, and she was twitching. I couldn't see an entry so I added another to her head. Half her head disappeared.
It turned out I didn't need to do it. She had fallen on her first wound. A shot in her neck, just behind the head, liquefying it.

WHAT A FUN DAY!
We donated the boars to some needy rednecks and kept the sow.
We figure that nearly all of them took off with extra perforations. No biggie. There are several hundred more in the area.
We hunt for food, as well as extermination.

Here is pics of what we harvested.

My sow is on the right. The one with the misshaped head.
Notice the amount of dirt in this field? It is supposed to be hay all the way to the trees.
4pigsfromMafia2.jpg


The big boar, me, and our rifles.
244LbBoar.jpg


Weigh-in of the big boar. That's ATTT's cousin on the wench.
ATTT was taking the pics.
244Boarweighin.jpg


P.S. This was one week ago, on Saturday.
 
OK, so why are you blasting holes into pigs with varmint bullets and letting them run away to suffer a slow death? I know pigs are shoot on site vermin that need to be thinned out, but at the very least use a bullet that will penetrate and offer clean kills, not one designed for prarie dogs that will leave
my pigs flesh, in strips, like worms, hanging from the branches of a large mesquite bush.

Five of my shots hit, total. Only one of those 'hits' dropped another pig.
Yeah, don't you think thats a sign that you're doing something wrong?

It was astounding to me that these pigs were taking so many hits and still running...
Again, don't you think thats a sign you're doing something wrong?

Nothing is as disgusting as someone shooting a v-max bullet, designed to completely fragment upon impact, at a large animal. :barf:
 
We use V-Max because of the animals we do not want to hurt.
Last thing we want is to pass-thru on a pig, have the bullet deflect upward, and hit a cow, goat, horse, or any other livestock.
Or worse, someones house or a car.

Do you care what part of a mouse gets caught in the trap?
I don't.
I just throw it out.

If a pig runs away after being hit. What difference does it make?
There are hundreds. So many that the game warden says, "Shoot them on site."
The same for Lions. (yes, that's a true quote)
It is illegal to "Hunt" from the road in Texas. But feral pigs get the nod, and go-ahead, because it helps the extermination.

If it disgusts you.
I'm sorry you read it.
Please, feel free to ignore any more of my threads.

We chose those bullets because of the damage they do, whether the pig runs away or not. It ensures kills.
That, and the benefit of no ricochets.
 
I don't get the varmit bullets when using .308 either. Too many bullets designed for that size game, and, even pigs deserve a quick, clean death. Hate to think how many times the 'government' has screwed up, and called something vermin, when it's there because they put it there...
 
LOL yea but vermin is so true.
Here is why we use them.
The 110gr TAP ammo uses the 110gr V-Max bullet...
308_TAP_comparison.jpg


10 inches of penetration from my 308, nothing left to continue its travel. Only 19gr Recovered Weight.
No collateral damage.

They didn't suffer long.
It's just that they have the constitution to continue on without knowing or caring.
The only DRT kills on pigs, is if you destroy nerve centers between the brain and the front shoulders.
ANY other hit and they will continue on.
 
+1 Tyrajam's vomments. You say you lose the lighter round to make sure you don't pass through and hit livestock, but I can't imagine the haphazard spray you describe is any easier on the live stock.
 
I don't shoot at anything I don't intend to eat( accept in self defense)---I am glad that you gave the pigs to someone that will use them and needs them for food.
I too think even those pigs deserve a quick death with as little suffering as possible---it's the way I was raised to respect animals---even the ones we use for food and hunt.
I have to agree with JohnWilliamson comments on your missed shots---kind of negates your thoughts on protecting live stock and houses--let alone people.
I really don't like the thought of any animal going off into the brush to suffer while it takes hours to die---just my humble opinion.

Dipper
 
LOl thanks for the concern.
I too can agree with what they say but...

There were no livestock in the down-range fields that day. That's why I guarded the fenceline.
The ammo was chosen for those odd shots where singles could be shot at hogs that are in the same field as livestock.
The other fact is, we are tall, pigs are short, fields are flat.
We stand up for the runners for that reason.
The V-max, again, hits anything, and the bullet is toast.
My misses may have been bullets that were destroyed before they got to the hogs.

..."UmGawa" ... He describes it as, "Shooting as fast as you can, until the dirt explosions catch up to the pigs."

Besides, those other projectiles I linked pictures of are A-Max's.
Notice how little difference there is in the Permanent Trauma Canal?
The only major differences are Retained Weight and Penetration length, both of which we prefer not to have.

The V-Max is near-perfect for what we determined to be the ideal bullet in the semi-automatics.

The bolt actions we use for long range shots are; SST's for ATTT, and soft-points for me.
 
One advantage the light bullets do have is they don't recoil much, and, make the bigger guns feel like AR 15's. I can see your point of wanting to hit as many as you can, since my understanding of pig hunting is on the first shot, the bunch is
just gone...

I don't agree with the bullet choice, since if I'm shooting for a tail, I'd like something that would penetrate Texas heart shot distance. That looks like 4 to 6 feet or so, judging from the pictures you took. Plus, it sounds like your group takes LOTS of Texas heart shots...

Placement and penetration are going to do the most damage. As I said, pigs and bears are WAY too human for me to not want to put them down properly, with as little pain as possible.

Why don't you just get a .50 BMG, and hit them from range, with light for caliber bullets that expand like crazy?

Have a friend down there, and, swears by his .505 Gibbs on hogs...

I certainly wouldn't call this 'hunting'. Culling maybe...
 
Ahh
I am trying...
These pigs told us where they were. We didn't have to stalk them or bait them.

Some here are of the opinion we don't think about things before we go out.
That we are unethical hunters.

I will never change those mindsets.
Its just too hard to explain to people what it is like to have a non-native animal literally force you to go broke, and worry about loosing property.
Some folks just don't have the ability to place themselves in others shoes.
I choose humanity, and to help out where I can.

The ethics for me in this instance; we must hunt them down to a level that they do not hinder livelihood.
That is why I was asked to help. And that is what I will continue to do.

And yes Wild, if I could afford it, I would send some meat to you.
 
Your mixing up what some are trying to say.
I for one, have no problem with you culling the pigs--that ain't the issue--I understand crop and land damage---ever see what 50 ELK can do to a huge corn crop in one night??
It's your methods and your attitude that they are just pigs and if they are just wounded and suffer so what??
It's your mindset and your approach---kill as many as you have to---HUMANELY and use the meat or give it away to those that will.

Dipper
 
I'm not mixing it up dipper.

I choose to shoot and let a pig suffer for 10 minutes rather than a land owner go broke because I let them run off scott free.

They call these rounds 'varmint bullets' but they do far more damage than any other varmint bullet on the market.
It isn't my fault some here refuse to actually compare the gelatin photo's.
Those are a V-Max and two A-Max's.

No BlitzKing does the damage of the equivalent V-Max.
The V-Max sets itself apart. Not me.

Why is it my fault that others can't think outside the box and actually run their own tests and research what they are shooting?
They do what they are comfortable with.
I want what is best for my situation, not what 'everyone else' is comfortable with.
 
And my attitude didn't come easy.

It took me a month to get over the first pig I shot that got away.
ATTT and his family came to my work to thank me for killing the pig, reguardless of whether I harvested it or not.
That was when I only began to understand the problem, in full.
That is when I started researching bullets and testing.
I want the pigs to suffer as little as possible.

Since then, I have spent more time with his family and seen the mental and physical damage with my own eyes.

Yes, I am proud of helping them.
It is a hard road to accept.

It boils down to a choice.
You either do it, or you don't help at all.
 
OK. Now I see why.

Still didn't answer the question: If you are trying to nail as many pigs as possible, and, they take off, away from you at first shot, why wouldn't you use a bullet that's fairly heavy, and penetrates more end to end, vs. something designed for ground hogs?

Do you sacrifice so much in recoil that you can't get as many shots in?

Is part of the reason bullet cost? If you are shooting as many as possible, I imagine loading Nosler partitions would be out of the question.

What about heavy, cast bullets? Feeding problems?

If you are shooting into the ground anyway, why worry?
 
The ground out in our area tends to have rocks in it.
Even the cultivated fields.

I choose the V-Max for the semi-automatics as an insurance measure to prevent us causing more damage than helping.
Zero ricochets.

Here is a PDF from Texas A&M.
They suggest using snares as a viable method. One owner I help uses them everywhere.
Any bullet is better than a snare, depending...IMO

http://icwdm.org/Publications/pdf/Feral Pig/Txferalhogs.pdf

They don't see well.
They tend to run around the shooters once the known paths are blocked off.
In the OP, ATTT blocked thier original path and I blocked the other end off their normal travel route.
They ended up circling ATTT about 80 yards away, thru the field.
 
Sounds like you've put a lot of thought into this, and know what you are doing. Good luck with your culling.

Thank you for taking the time to explain what you decided on, and why you decided on it. I wish you the best of luck, and get a few for me....;)
 
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