OUCH, . . . swat team in your back yard

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Dwight55

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There was a story on Yahoo news the other day about a new game some folks are playing on their computers.

http://www.ktla.com/landing/?blockID=202481&feedID=171

Apparently, there is a way that someone can call a bogus 911 call onto YOUR place, . . . and send the stormtroopers, . . . and YOU can become the innocent victim.

I only post this to bring up again the importance of having a plan, . . . a backup plan, . . . and really considering the idea of just crouching in the safe room and making the bg come to you.

I cringe every time I read this, . . . how easily he could have done something to precipitate an "accidental but fatal" police shooting.

May God bless,
Dwight
 
Moderator Note

Guys, because I think this can stay on topic and become a worthwhile discussion, I'm leaving this one open. But here's the deal: posts in this thread MUST stay on topic!

Here's the topic of the thread:
I only post this to bring up again the importance of having a plan, . . . a backup plan, . . . and really considering the idea of just crouching in the safe room and making the bg come to you.
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As long as we continue to discuss how to formulate sensible home defense plans, the thread will stay open. In short, the forum is for Tactics & Training discussions. No room here for political or quasi-political rants.

If the thread veers into useless and off-topic rants, and it'll get closed post-haste.

Thanks,

pax
 
What a Moron

Jason Trowbridge, one of the defendants currently serving a five-year sentence, told the AP "Nobody ever thought anyone would get hurt or die from a SWAT call,"
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Since i'm not a ruthless killer or a "meth salesman" I'm pretty sure that if i see a flashlight coming through my window at midnight i'm gonna grab my USP and push my Girlfriend behind the bed and wait readily for the intruder to leave or break in... While she calls 911. How do you think SWAT would react when they get into my room and i'm pointing a gun at them? I'd shoot me too, were I them.

I suppose your best bet is to make sure to call 911 asap (which should always be the case.) and inform the dispatch that you're armed (if you are of course) and that you don't know what's happening. But i'm excited to see what some other ideas might be, I love these threads, I always learn something.
 
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I guess I am too naive to have thunk this was a possibility... Gonna have to re-think the whole world over this!:eek:
Brent
 
I went to bed one night, and awoke to nearly the same scene. (on first reading)

The house was bright from the helicopter flood lights and an officer was looking in my garage. His dog was doing a search as the officer checked shadows with his light.

Seems there was a robbery and the BGs bailed / abandoned the car half a block away.

I know...different from being the direct focus of the swat team...but close enough to see the need for a series of plans...( A)...(B)...(C-H maybe) !

I agree that the safe room/call 911 and communicate is the way to go. Last thing I want to do is GET SHOT! messes up the whole week.:D

Mark.
 
S grabs vest, Mosin Nagant 44, fixes bayonet, grabs .475 and .500 Max for backup, and, 30-06 as well, ;)heads into isolated bathroom, with one entry, and no windows, wishes it had an iron, or cast steel bathtub, and grabs cell phone. Hits retired SWAT officers phone number, and, ask him to PLEASE call his students off....
 
I only post this to bring up again the importance of having a plan, . . . a backup plan, . . . and really considering the idea of just crouching in the safe room and making the bg come to you.
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That and calling 911 sounds better than wandering out into the yard with a knife or gun in your hand. As a young man, I was at a house that was paid a visit by the local SWAT team. Fortunately, none of us were armed and were just standing around in the back yard. The team just seemed to appear.... everywhere at once :eek:. On the roof of the house and the detached garage behind it, through the two gates and a few came over the fences.... surrounded, slammed to the ground and cuffed before we had a clue what was going on. Scary business!
 
what a very ugly thought...bad guy pulls same prank cross referenced with local CCW list culled from liberal newpaper publishing names and addresses.

honestly i doubt id have the time/thought to call 911 if someone busts thru my front door. if i heard them first or saw the black helo with lights, i might have time...but a door going down is a call to action in my head. since im a good guy and do NOT expect the local swat guys...i would have to assume a home invasion.

even with 3 guys yelling 'police!' or 'warrant!' or whatever...it'd be a pucker factor 7 mr sulu in any case.

i guess id hope that the time it took them to announce and enter would give me time to assess the situation...and give them time to assess as well.

Depending on the "reason" they are assuming is necessary for a dynamic entry..hostage or whatever...and entering my house with its lazy border collie and kids toys in the corner would set off at least a question in the swat teams mind...

they dont just roll thru the neighborhood and storm into houses..im sure there would be some recon and surveillance...maybe a phone call or whatever before someone decided its necessary to kick the door...
 
The truly scary thing about such a scenario is that people like us, those who are ready to stand up and defend ourselves, are the most likely to get killed by the police!

It makes me really reconsider my approach to home defense. Back to the drawing board!
 
This is where situational awareness is key. If I wake up and lights and sirens and helicopters are surrounding my house, I'm going to place myself within arms reach of my HD gun, in case there is a BG already in my house. I'm not going to touch the gun until I know someone is in my house and that person has not announced themselves as a LEO.

It's scary, but you have to keep your SA up. Any of us that have firearms for SD/HD can make mistakes that will get us shot. Be smart. Realize that when the LEO's show up, all they see is a guy with a gun. They don't know who you are. We don't have signs around our necks that read "Good Guy" or "Bad Guy" so LEO's are going to assume that anyone and everyone is the BG.

Long before the internet and caller ID hackers, cops have responded to the wrong address and such.

As soon as LEO's are on scene, your role as the armed citizen is over. Disarm yourself quickly and in a completely non threatening manner and always follow their instructions exactly. When everyone has a gun drawn is not the time to try and figure out who the BG is. That can easily be taken care of later.
 
We came home from the grocery store on a summer weekday about 11:30 am to find police scattered all over our yard and the surrounding yards, shotguns out. Actually, some friends of ours were passing through the area and decided to stop by and they ran in to the scene first, then called us. We were at the checkout line with the groceries when he told us of the situation, so we came home.

We live on a court and couldn't drive the full way down our street, so I rolled down the window and spoke to the first officer I could find. They told me that they chased a bank robber toward our development and lost him, then found his getaway car parked in my next door neighbor's driveway.

They had dogs on the scene and were picking up a scent leading away from the scene. One of the officers noted that I had a pretty upset and barking dog in my house and he told me that it was a good bet that my dog helped to make up this guy's mind not to enter my house.

He told me they searched all around my house and saw no signs of entry, but that they did not enter my house.

Then he told me that they did not plan to enter my house and clear it, so he suggested that I leave my family in the car and clear my own house!

I wasn't really sure about whether or not they'd be willing to assist me or do it for me if I asked, but I figured what the hell, I'd go ahead and do it. So I unlocked the door, looked around and went directly to my safe. My dog was acting predictably, exactly the way she does when someone is outside of our house. I relied heavily upon the dog and her actions/attitude that it was prudent for me to go to the safe and arm myself. (this was before I had my carry permit) I took my 12 gauge and loaded it, took a flashlight, and cleared my house 100%.

Then I put the shotgun back in the safe and went outside and told the officers that we didn't have anyone in there and no signs of trouble, nothing out of the ordinary. They let me drive the car in to our driveway and let our friends in, and they continued their search.

There was at least a couple of officers on the scene for about the next three hours. At one point about 90 minutes after we arrived, we had a knock at the door and one officer told us that they caught him about 2 miles away, on foot. They had the car torn apart with a lot of stuff piled in the neighbor's driveway.

Hope I'm not drifting the thread too much, just didn't think my little story warranted it's own thread. I found all the officers to be professional and calm, but I was kind of surprised that when I arrived, they didn't ask nor want to enter my house first, or hell, at all. Perhaps it was because they already had the dogs on a scent, I don't know, but they didn't seem to think that there would be anyone in my house.
 
You know, a situation like this came up in the CC class I was in. The topic was No-Knock-Warrents. He said that they serve no knocks all the time and are a very useful tool in the aprehension of criminals. I agree, but the question that he didn't answer was...

During a no knock, do the LE officers entering always announce who they are? And how liable would a person be if it were found out to be the wrong house and an officer were to be injured?
 
During a no knock, do the LE officers entering always announce who they are? And how liable would a person be if it were found out to be the wrong house and an officer were to be injured?
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If you shoot a cop, even if it was justified, 99% of the time you are screwed. If the cop shoots you by mistake, you shouldn't have been there (even if it's your own home.) In other words, you can't win. HTH :)
 
Having served my share of warrants, I can tell you that, in Florida at least, there is no such thing as a "No knock warrant". The knock and announce as we call it is always the cause for any suppression hearings...did you wait long enough, what time was it, what were the conditions, what kind of violation were you serving the warrant for.

The only time we have ever entered a house without knocking is when we get compromised on the approach. The doper looks out the window and is like "oh S@#t, the cops" and ducks back inside...no knock required. They know we're there and are apparently no willing to let us in.

If I was to attempt to put a no knock clause in a warrant, the SAO would not approve it and even if they did, none of our judges would sign it. We err on the side of caution. There is no established wait time in Florida (the law says a "reasonable" time) well, that depends on the situation. An indoor marijuana grow with no violent suspects...I'll give you a while. It's not like you can flush a bunch of plants. A robbery warant on a bunch of armed gang bangers...not much wait at all (if any). Reasonable is a suitably vague legal term but I would rather have that then be told that I have to wait at least a minute (or longer) no matter what...lots a bad can happen in a minute

As far as them not offering or wanting to search your house, if there were no signs of forced entry and no K-9's were sniffing around an entry point, I can see why. Had there been an open window to your house or other signs that someone may have covertly entered, they more then likely would have searched it prior to your arrival or at least put a perimeter around it and had dispatch attempt to get contact numbers for the property owner to get permission and determine if any legitimate persons were inside but in an exigent circumstance, they would have gone in. I've done it in the past. We'll announce "Police" to hell and gone as we come in (just like on a search warrant). I don't want to get shot by accident by a homeowner and don't really want to shoot a good guy who just happens to get surprised when I come around the corner

They probably would have cleared your hosue if you had asked them to but you may have had to wait. My bet is they were on an assigned perimeter and really couldn't leave a post for something that was basically a non emergency. You did the right thing and appear to have done it well
 
First the SWAT team would have to get by the bedded down moose behind my house. That would almost certainly alert the dogs, and me too. With the SWAT members either shooting moose, or getting the tar stomped out of them by the moose (really - don't get between a mama moose and her babies!), would give me some time to dial 911 and find out what was going on.

In all seriousness, I would hope to never have a SWAT team breech my house. I would think that the dogs would give ample warning before a breech, but never hope to have to deal with this kind of conflict.

This is one reason that I believe in a verbal challenge from a "bunkered" position when considering HD scenarios. If you yell out, "Stop! I have already called 911/the police!" before they enter your room, that may play out differently than if you wait for a door to begin opening and then start letting the lead fly.
 
Years ago, our local sherrif's dept. was known for doing drug busts at the wrong address. I lived in a duplex. My neighbor was a biker/drug dealer. I moved. Landlord tried to tell me I had a contract. I told him that I had complained about the neighbor and nothing was done-so he breached the contract and to sue me.
The SD was just breaking down doors and entering. I was afraid that I would shoot one of them, and in return, be bullet riddled.
Bad situation to be in.
 
Man am I glad to have this info. Had no clue they could do this. I will have my wife keep the cordless on the night stand from now on. Good idea to call and confirm if the swat team is just out side. Or any officer for that matter. We have had home robberies where the BG's were identifying themselves as police to gain entry. I think that is over though, the real cops came down on that like a bag of bricks.
 
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