Other than inability to chamber hot ammo, what's wrong with break-top revolver design

Just figured out what you meant by side gate revolvers. And that is a very good point.
The most prominant reason to select a break top revolver over the single action side gate type pistol is the same now as it was 100 years ago and that was for fast reloads especially on a moving horses back. DDT
 
Hi, pvq,

Those would have been my assessments, but I figured you would find out for yourself. The 999 was the top of the H&R line but not really a target pistol. Main problem was not in the break top action, but in failure to get all the cylinder holes lined up, which destroys accuracy. When you luck out and come up clean with a range rod on all the chambers, the guns shoot pretty well. Of course, as you say, it is tough to do anything with the trigger, and I have tried. A screw through the trigger guard to reduce overtravel helps a surprising amount.

Hi, ddt4free,

The slop you mention is a factor of the cylinder lockup, which involves the cylinder bolt (stop), regardless of whether the gun is top break or swing out. It can increase with firing, but usually not significantly.
The other "slop" in a revolver is end shake, and it too has little to do with how the gun loads, except that in the topbreak strain and battering of the top strap lugs will eventually allow the cylinder to develop end shake. I have seen many top breaks which had so much looseness that the firing pin would not strike the primer unless the gun was held together at the time of firing. That does not happen with a sideswing revolver.

Jim
 
Hi Jim,

I was on the range again today, and fired another 100 rounds through my 999. This time, at an outdoor range which allowed me to shoot at some cans and other "reactive" targets. As suspected, the gun is a great can killer, even at 25 yards. What I really wanted to say is that this gun is really a blast to shoot. I would reccommend it to anyone simply for the fabulous "fun" factor. I have a feeling I'm now addicted to .22 shooting and will be firing this gun more than all my others. As suspected, I did most of my firing single action so the heavy trigger really didn't come into play. The DA shooting I did was in at about 15 yards, and was no problem accuracy wise. A buddy of mine was there with his ruger single-six, and even he was impressed with the accuracy of my 999. Needless to say I'm very happy with my purchase.
 
Jim, Thank You for yor kind response. You are correct with the points you make but you missed the point I was making. This is my fault as it would be alot easier for me to show you what I mean as opposed to trying te describe it over the web.

I think you are thinking about the wrong end of the cylinder. And yes all guns suffer from wear but some designs wear more slowly than others. And in the ways that the venerable Oleg and myself mention these designs resist the types of wear that we describe much longer than other designs. No one has suggested that there is a design that does not wear out.

After all, if some guns weren't better because of fundamental design design than others, we could all carry the same gun and we would all be equally happy. Not Gonna Happen.......thanks again ddt.
 
I thought H&R went under a while ago... if not, please post me their website addtress.

Thanx,
Ben

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AOL IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ddt4free:
Jim, Thank You for yor kind response. You are correct with the points you make but you missed the point I was making. This is my fault as it would be alot easier for me to show you what I mean as opposed to trying to describe it over the web.

I think you are thinking about the wrong end of the cylinder. And yes all guns suffer from wear but some designs wear more slowly than others. And in the ways that the venerable Oleg and myself mention these designs resist the types of wear that we describe much longer than other designs. No one has suggested that there is a design that does not wear out.

As for side break revolvers not having this problem you are massively mistaken. The gun you are talking about needing to be held together to fire wouldn't happen to be NEF or H&R would it? I would tend to blame the manufacturer rather that the general design.

After all, if some guns weren't better because of fundamental design design than others, we could all carry the same gun and we would all be equally happy. Not Gonna Happen.......thanks again ddt.[/quote]
 
Ben,

H&R did go under back in the 80's. The marque was revived by New England Firearms who is producing guns under that name. I dont believe the have a website
 
I was trying to calculate how much pressure a break top could take. I asked my father for help on how the latch shares the tension with the hinge. He told me that there is no chamber pressure component to the latch tension. He said that the only force the latch sees are bullet friction and recoil on the barrel mass. I thought he was wrong, but I eventually realized he was right. I had to realize the barrel and cylinder are open ended. It took me 5 hours to see it. [pea brain]

Looks like many of the above posters made the same mistake.

[This message has been edited by Clark (edited July 16, 2000).]
 
Doesn't anybody remember several years back when ( I think it was ) Detonics was working on a modern top break large caliber revolver? I thought that the pictures I saw of prototypes were quite pretty.
 
"Guns" November 1983 issue had a an evaluation of a Prototype Detonics Big Bore Top Break Revolver. The test sample was in 45 Colt.
 
I have heard tell of a weapon out there. A revolver being produced with the break-top feature . It's called a Korth and it is also said that it is prohibitively expensive. I've looked around for it and have only been able to find fuzzy pictures and one clear photo of simply the grip. It's become something like a Sasquatch for me, in fact. I'd pay the ridiculous price (I hear in the four-figure range) just to have captured it.
Meanwhile, it is curious that none of the major manufacturers today seem to want to cash in on this style of gun. I think there's a market.
 
Korth may have made a top break but all the ones I`ve seen pics of are conventional swing out cyl. They look similar to S&W 586 and go for $1200-$1500. The Detonics was a really cool concept gun. The one I saw pics of was a 7 shot .357,really radical for the early `80s. Marcus
 
Absolutely nothing is wrong with them, The S&W .44s and the Webbly .455s were formidableweapons and still are with the proper ammunition and then, there is the Webbly-Fusberry automatic revolver.
 
I shot four Webleys (two converted to .45acp, one in .38/200 and one in .38). Liked the .45s better...triggers on the later models were pretty bad. I would have felt much better armed with one than with a Nagant revolver but would probably prefer a 1917 to either...something about better lockwork.
 
Oleg, I see this thread has some life to it!

Even though the .45 breaktops were, as another poster stated, formidable weapons, they still operated at pretty low overall pressures, not much more than 25,000 psi.

I think that if someone really wanted to put some time and effort into it, a very durable break top could be made that would fire today's high-intensity cartridges.

But it would require a pretty stout hinge pin and an even stouter latch, which may make it totally impractical.

Pity, I've always liked breaktops.

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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
I started loading up break top 38s&w Iver johnsons with 2 gr Bullseye with 158 gr .360" soft lead bullet. This is a wimpy book load. I experemented with 9mm max loads [case capacity is about the same]. I put J frame deceleraltor grips on to handle the recoil. Then I was working up through the 38 Super loads [7.9 gr Blue Dot 158 gr .357 JHP] When teh guns latchs loosened up. One .020" and one .003". The failure mode was the eye of the latch opened from round to egg shaped.

I was shooting 32 acp in the 32 s&w [it fits in some, some must be reamed] The 32 acp was loaded up to about double the pressure of SAAMI 32acp. The 32 loosened up too.

As I pointed out above, I did not then understand the forces. Interestingly, Jim above does understand the breaktop latch force.

I intend to make and heat treat a latch. I intend to finish reaming the riflings out and polish the bore. I will do the Terra Grease teflon treatment to the polished smooth bore. I may lighten the barrel mass. Or I may keep buying a break top fot $40 at every gun show.
 
CAUTION !!!.....

Some of the old break top .38 S&Ws have straight bored cylinders. Found one that would not only chamber .38 spec, it would hold .357 mag with wadcutter.

If such a gun falls into the wrong hands an accident is impending. Many people use the terms .38 and .38 special interchangably.

Sam....my favorite 9mm is the 9X32R
 
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