[OT] More fuel to the fire: Gay equality activists heading to Boy Scouts headquarters

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KaMaKaZe

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Gay equality activists heading to Boy Scouts headquarters

By ANGELA K. BROWN, Associated Press

DALLAS (August 21, 2000 1:02 p.m. EDT http://www.nandotimes.com) - Only about two dozen people demonstrated Monday as they headed toward the national Boy Scouts of America headquarters as part of a nationwide protest against the organization's policy banning gay Scout leaders.

"Stop the hate, stop the lies," read one sign at the demonstration outside a local scouting council office.

The demonstrators, some of whom wore Boy Scout uniforms, were headed to the national headquarters in suburban Irving to present a petition with 55,000 signatures asking the organization to accept gays as scoutmasters and scouts. They said they held the demonstration at the council office because it was more visible and they feared getting kicked off the headquarters property.

Rallies against the Boy Scouts were planned in at least 36 cities and 21 states.

The Supreme Court ruled 5-4 in June that Boy Scouts can bar homosexuals from serving as troop leaders. The ruling may also permit the 6.2 million-member organization to reject gays as members.

The Boy Scouts consider homosexuality contrary to their oath requiring scouts to be "morally straight."

"We recognize the rights of all people to hold opinions different than ours," said Gregg Shields, spokesman for the National Council of the Boy Scouts of America. "We stress that we are a private organization and that no one is forced to be a Boy Scout. People who share our values and beliefs are welcome to join."

One of the Dallas demonstrators, Eagle Scout Steven Cozza, 15, of Petaluma, Calif., said he participated because he knows several people who were not allowed to become scoutmasters because they are gay.

"Scoutmasters are people to look up to. What's wrong with being influenced by a gay man? Someone's sexuality has nothing to do with his character or personality," he said.

Cozza left the Boy Scouts about six months ago after his father was kicked out for protesting the organization's position on gays. Cozza, who said neither he nor his father is gay, formed an organization called Scouting for All to support the idea that gays should be allowed to be in scouting.

Another demonstrator, Scott Pusillo, 20, from New Jersey, held a sign reading: "I love Scouting and I love my boyfriend."

Pusillo was an assistant scoutmaster before being kicked out last year because he is gay.

"I completely believe that sex discussions should take place between a parent and child so my sexuality was never brought up when I was a Scout leader," Pusillo said.

Pusillo said he wants the Boy Scouts to let individual councils make their own decisions about who could be leaders.

"We would like discrimination wiped out completely, but we think this is starting that process in baby steps," he said.
[/quote]

As a former Boy Scout.. what part of "The Boy Scouts consider homosexuality contrary to their oath requiring scouts to be "morally straight."" and "We stress that we are a private organization and that no one is forced to be a Boy Scout. People who share our values and beliefs are welcome to join." do people not understand?

I'm waiting on all the little girls of America to jump on this bandwaggon too. :mad:

The story can be found HERE.

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God, Guns and Guts made this country a great country!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EnochGale:
Don't need this thread, do we?[/quote]

I don't really wanna insite a riot... :confused:
 
No, we don't need this thread. We don't need any of them. ;)

This relates to civil rights, so its in the right forum. If it stays on topic and doesn't become a flame war, I see no reason to close it.


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RKBA!
"The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security"
Ohio Constitution, Article I, Section 4
Concealed Carry is illegal in Ohio.
Ohioans for Concealed Carry Website
 
Then, the demonstrators are exercising their first amendments rights and good for them.

Also, the Boy Scouts should stop accepting any government funding and endorsements.

Finally, it is time they grow up and re-examine their precepts. An individual's private sexuality is not relevant to their role. As long, as the individual does not
discuss it with his or her group, who cares.

There has not been made, ever, a factual argument as why someone being gay is a detriment to society. The usual argument is an appeal to religious authority but no data based analysis that can hold up.

Thus, the Boy Scouts are acting in a non-rational and discriminatory fashion.
Previously, some Scout groups had trouble with non-white membership in the past.

They have gotten past that. They should do the same thing with sexual orientation.

The demonstrators have the right to make this opinion known to this private organization.
As a private organization who wants to maintain a discriminatory policy, they should severe all government ties.

Note, this is not a flame. Let's see how it goes.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
As a private organization who wants to maintain a discriminatory policy, they should severe all government ties.[/quote]

I'm a taxpayer, should I only have to pay taxes to sponsor programs which gay's endorse ? I already pay for many programs which, due to requirements, I nor my family members could ever be part of so what is wrong here ? According to this logic if it's not gay it's not OK, and that is exactly why I have no sympathy for gay rights - the rights they are talking about are your rights, and they want em - period. Let's say I smoke pot and I want my pot smokers rights so I go into a job and say " I smoke pot - and want to talk about pot at work" should the guy have the "right" not to hire me ? Not according to gay rights activist and that is why they are wrong. The fact is I have no urge to force my way into homosexual businesses and demand to be hired, into homosexual churches and demand to be heard speaking out AGAINST homosexuality etc. They neither have any right to force their way into a traditional value setting and speak out AGAINST the traditional value viewpoint.


[This message has been edited by scud (edited August 22, 2000).]
 
EnochGale, are you willing to terminate the National Endowment for the Humanities and the National Endowment for the Arts? Those agencies consume a lot of federal monies, and I think there is no earthly reason I should be forced (essentially, at gun point) to contribute to such work. Even if you personally would close these agencies, many wouldn't, and yet will hassle the Scouts. Hypocrisy.

And, while we're on the subject, please tell us what 'government ties' they have. This is being thrown around a great deal lately, and, IMHO, is greatly exaggerated. I've even heard some fools cite the Scouts use of public roads!

You and I have been around this subject before. In my opinion, the gay community is creating a needless backlash for themselves with this cause. People will not be forced to associate with gays in their private organizations (especially those with a religious component), and attempts to force otherwise will not help in assimilating gays into our society. This will create needless hatred.

Isn't it fascinating that the Scouts are being hassled to include gays, but many of the same people want to have gun owners registered, and arrested if we have the 'wrong' firearms, the 'wrong' parts on our firearms, carry them the 'wrong' way, etc.? Typical hypocrisy.

The crux of this is freedom of association. Is there any left? The Supreme Court has said yes. Will we now be at each others throats because the gay community cannot abide others freedom of association? Apparently. Bad strategy, IMHO.

Regards from AZ
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EnochGale:
Then, the demonstrators are exercising their first amendments rights and good for them.

Finally, it is time they grow up and re-examine their precepts. An individual's private sexuality is not relevant to their role. As long, as the individual does not
discuss it with his or her group, who cares.
[/quote]

They are being grown-up about it. It's their stand on principle that they believe in that's being attacked.

All these whiners pout, (whiney voice) "They shouldn't do that!"

"They shouldn't do this!"

"I should be included!"

"If I can't have it, neither should they!"

"IT'S NOT FAIR!"

Well, damn right it's not. :mad:

So grow up, and start the GAY SCOUTS organization. Appeal to the churches that are condemning the BOY SCOUTS for their stand.

Crabs in a bucket, that's all that these liberals are.

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John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
www.cphv.com

[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited August 22, 2000).]
 
Here are some examples of BSA government ties. The President is honorary Chairman of the BSA. Congress has extended "special charter status" to the BSA. The Army sponsors certain Scouting units.
 
Yes, I agree that the arts should not have government support. Artists feel annoyed when the government chooses not to support some offensive bit of art.

There is more than enough private money for the arts. And there is enough private funding for the Boy Scouts.

As far as the comparision of not hiring gays to not hiring pot smokers - get real.

Show me how that influences your job performance.

And the churches that condemn gays, should take a hard look at themselves.

So far there has not be a reasonable reply based on why an organization should discriminate against gays and get any governmental support (by that I mean funds allocated to them).
 
No, EnochGale. The churches don't need to "take a hard look" at themselves, the liberals do.

Truth that changes isn't truth, is it. It's philosophy, or opinion, or recycled bull$h!t that's been placed in a prettier package.

It's marketing.

And please answer the question that Jeff Thomas posed.

Just how does the BSA receive these "allocated" funds from the government?

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John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
www.cphv.com

[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited August 22, 2000).]
 
This is a hard one to reply too without inciting any type of flame/verbal war. I think that they (gays/lesbians) should start their own groups. I also believe that any federal or state funds being used to support these clubs (Boy Scouts) should also be availiable, in like amounts, to the gay/lesbian clubs. I also believe that gays/lesbians should not be fired due to their lifestyle (or hired because of it), kept from renting homes or apartments, or discriminated against in any way. I hope these beliefs when it comes to ALL people. I believe that they (gays/lesbians) should also be allowed to marry, hell, if others have to pay a marriage tax, why shouldn't they? I believe that the sex laws should be overturned, because they aren't the only ones who have kinky sex in the bedroom.

I believe that clubs or organizations should have a right to have a select membership IF they are a private organization* (no funds from State, Local, or Federal Governments). Funds can be donated by businesses and private individuals. If the club/organization is public (YMCA/YWCA, Boys and Girls Clubs) then it should be open to EVERYONE.

I can see why the gays and lesbians are doing this. Civil Rights (NOT special rights) to be included in any type of Public forum.

But, I will say this to open every one's mind on the subject:

Reverse the concept and put YOURSELF in the shoes of others. I used to be the biggest Black hater, Jewish hater, Mexican hater, well you get the point, on this planet. A black friend (wasn't a friend until later) asked me to put myself in his shoes for a day. It was an almost (98%) all White School, Country folk, with Southern Morals and Values. Some would say, nice school, but even through it was nice for me, it wasn't as nice to him. The N jokes behind the Gym, the "forgetting" about him when it came to "hanging out". You get the point.

I don't know if I've said anything right in this post or not. All I know is that I can look at both sides and understand both issues. Maybe as a joke, I will start saying, "I have ALLOT of Scouting friends" :).


USP45usp

*I also believe that if they are a private organization that has the right to select membership, that NO EEO laws or discrimination laws should apply to them. I.E. All White club, All Black club, All gay club, All Male club, All Female club, etc. If I am a White, gay, handicap male then I should be allowed to only have membership of like characteristics if I so wished.

See what I'm getting at? All White Male Gun Owners Club? You think the Blacks, Mexicans, etc.. won't be sueing our a$$ in court? And who do you think is going to win?
 
The issue HAS been addressed by the girl scouts. They have no policy on gayness, either with the leaders or the scouts.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EnochGale: ... And the churches that condemn gays, should take a hard look at themselves ...[/quote]"Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolators nor adulterers nor [boy] prostitutes nor practicing homosexuals nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Cor 6:9-10

I would say that churches who condemn gays have already taken a hard look at themselves and made the correct decision. It is clear to me that an overwhelming majority of society has drifted from what the Good Book says in way or another (myself included -- remember, he without sin, cast the first stone) & it is the role AND responsibility of churches to point out our failures.
 
This is a real easy one for me.

Coupla parts of the First Amendment say: freedom of association & freedom of speech.

Bot Scouts get to associate with whomever they want & anybody don't like it gets to bitch.
 
EnochGale,
There is much evidence to show that the immorality of a society is demonstrated by its acceptance of sinful practices, and that an immoral society suffers the consequences of immorality. The consequences affect all individuals within that society. Consider the millions of out of wedlock pregnancies and their consequences: abortion and children murdered shortly after birth. This is a result of a society accepting sexual immorality. We see the Hollywood "sheros" having children without marriage and they are applauded. Many people are infected with STD. Some are incurable. We have the AIDS problem. Although it is primarily a disease of the homosexual community it has spread to IV drug users, and sexually promiscuous individuals. Would you say that "innocent" people don't suffer as a result of these things? Ask someone who has AIDS that was contracted from a blood transfusion.
You ask; "Who cares?" I do, and there are many more that care. I don't believe a mother has the right to murder her child whether that child is born or unborn. It is a universal law of sowing and reaping. We have sown immorality and violence and we reap the fruits in Columbine and other violent acts by individuals who have grown up in a society that values freedom without responsibility, and puts a small price on human lives. We have sown sexual immorality and we reap the murder of the unborn and the newly born, and sexually transmitted diseases.
A church that does not condemn homosexuality is a church that is disobedient to the God they claim to love and serve. Those churches are apostate churches and not a part of the true Church of redeemed believers. 1 John 2:4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him."
USP45usp, Your analogy that compares the homosexuals to Blacks or Jews is very much flawed. There is no sin in being a member of any race. The fact that sinful men have discriminated against other races simply shows the sinfulness of man. The acceptance of homosexuality also shows the sinfulness of man. It might seem right to many but be aware that Proverbs 14:12 "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." Romans 1:32 " Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." 1 Corinthians 6:9 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
History shows that when a nation accepts homosexuality that nation is on its last legs as a viable nation. Great nations fall from within and a society in which individuals are self centered and sexually immoral is a nation about to fall. Homosexuality is a great symptom of such a nation. It can be demonstrated that Proverbs 14:34 " Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people." Psalms 1:6 "For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish." Jerry


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Ecclesiastes 12:13  ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14  For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
 
If it comes down to the Scouts depending on private monies be assured they will be on my list with NRA ,GOA ,AMERICAN LEGION ,SASS ,DVA and several others that get a chunk of my money every year .
As far as The Arts they will be reduced to scrounging for broken crayons in dumpsters behind the public school .
If the Gov't. wants to be picky choosy on who gets money let's start with stopping ALL aid to any country until ALL Americans are out of poverty . ALL that are willing to WORK at it that is . Any lazy POS will be deported to one of the countries that don't get no mo' money !!!

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TOM
SASS AMERICAN LEGION NRA GOA
 
JerryM, this is why such threads are an absolute waste of time for this group.

You offer nothing to the debate except Scripture. When you can prove the existence of God then you might have a case.

Your faith cannot be the basis of denying people their rights. Nor can you muster any evidence to prove that gays are a risk.

As far as Aids, countries are being destroyed by heterosexual aids.

As I first said, the basic posts are driven by motives not important to this group and degenerating into calls to the authority of Scripture to justify discrimination.

As far as getting rid of pork barrel monies to pet groups. Fine with me.

Let the Scouts support themselves and let in whomever they want. I'm fine with that.

I do think their policy is stupid but they can be stupid on private funds.
 
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