Ordered my 1851 .36 Navy today and ...

Message to Oldelm

I may as well mention this to you here or at the other forum. The bolt head of a Remington is slanted on the top so it will engage the notch consistantly. Don't file it level. See the Remington instead of having ramps like Colt does to put the bolt on a lower plane than the off side of the notch to ensure locking into battery especially when cocked fast it (Remington) has the leading edge of the bolt head higher in relation to the rest of it so as it slides into the notch it is ensured to get to the deepest part of the notch so it can't skip past it. Know what I mean??? It is made to be slanted on the top of the bolt head. If the alignment is off a hair and the cylinder has to turn a hair more you can get your cylinder to turn a tiny bit more by moving the bolt over a hair with shim if the bolt window lets the bolt move a little. If not you may need to file the bolt window a tiny hair of a hair. There should be enough space between the bolt and the trigger. Wait till you break it in some though since that could change for the better when you have watched the movie "Pale Rider" while working the action of the gun through the whole movie. :D
 
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Wayner,
I saw something on the outdoor channel the other night called a "Lead Sled" for shooting large cal. rifles and they piled sandbags on it had a 7 Mil. mag. in the rig and the guy put an egg between his shoulder and the butt of the rifle and touched the trigger off and didn't break the egg. Close As I could come to a Ransom Rest. Didn't hear how much it cost though. looked like it could move parts to accept Pistols too. Don't know but that is a start.
 
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Wayne,........hey Bud,.... most often when you post I learn something new about these revolvers, and in this case it's the detail about the slanted bolt head in the Rems which I wasn't aware of before. Maybe there's other folks here like MEC or RK or Ole Dragoon that knew 'bout that, but I sure am glad I didn't go ahead and try to level off the bolt head on my new Shooters. Darn!,...I would'a messed it up,..LOL!

Here's a pic of it lookin in from the loading-capping side/front....

k0lzco.jpg


I mentioned the rusty bore,...well,...here's lookin down the muzzle.....

k0lzm0.jpg


and here's a close-up of an area in the nipple housing that has some surface rust......

k0lztg.jpg


I can clean the rust up, but want get the cylinder to rotate into battery just a schosh more to get rid of that telltale shiny cylinder face smilin at me in the groves, just a bit, but enough to be niggling at me that the chamber / bore alignment is a tad off. So I'll be trying your trick of filing a bit off the side of the bolt window, and shiming the other side to move it a hair over so as the cylinder will rotate a hair more. I think I know why these "reduced" Shooters are reduced. If you check their website out carefully you'll notice they have two different priced Shooters,....just like you said, Wayne. Well I got the cheaper one for $350. Now I know why they're reduced,...Lol!:rolleyes:

just want to add this pic of the bolt head on my Uberti '58.......interesting, it hardly has a slant,if any.......

k0nadl.jpg
 
chamber measure

Old Dragoon, when I measured a land from a lead slug put thru the bore of a Pietta 1851 Colt Navy with my Starrett calipers as carefully as was possible I got .3655 lands. Since the grooves were .369 and the chambers .366 I thought,"sompthin ain't rite". The land measurement taken from the ball had to be too high. I think because the caliper jaws are flat and the lands grooved into the ball are round the measurement was high. I had some pilots from a piloted reamer I had made with removable pilots and I tried the pilots in the bore of the revolver and luckily one pilot at .360 was a real good snug(stuck) fit in the barrel. That means that it would be maybe .001 smaller than the land measurement because nothing exactly the same size of a hole will go into the hole. The pilot would be a tiny smidgin smaller than the lands at .360. That means the measurement with the calipers in the grooves of the lead driven thru the barrel was about .0055 too big. I bet the measurement you got doing the same thing would be .004-.005 too big too.
 
Shooters model Remington

Oldelm, I think you got a good deal. You'll do well pilgrim. You'll do well. The groups you showed with the conversion were not bad attol. Not bad attol.
 
Old Elm,
My bolts have the same shape on the top of the bolt(ingagement) but the olt sides are vertical (like your Uberti), it looks like your sides are tilted. take the bolt out and look to see if some yahoo tightened the hand screw too far in and deformed the forks of the bolt. That was messed up with my last pistol I had to get the forks back parallel and closed up some. If the hand screw is too far into the hammer it will mess up the bolt forks(spread them, and possibly bend them. Don't know if this would force the bolt out of line (twisted) or not, but it could.

Wayner,
I'm looking at one of the slugged .451 bullets I slugged the bore with, so yes there is a radius on the lands but it is LARGE. Appears to be the .451 Dia. I just put the bullet in the jaws of the caliper and tightened them on the highest point(which happened to be the Lands on the bullet(grooves in the bbl.) every time on each set of lands the measurement was .451. May not be the scientific way to measure it, but it's the only way I have since i don't own groove or land mics. Measuring the bore(grooves on the bullet (lands in the bbl.) is a little harder.
 
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Curse you

Smokin, Old Dragoon, Oldelm, curse you all. After reading the posts about the "Avenging Angel Rem" and the 44 Rem. conversion and all that now I'm starting to want another gun. Another gun on my list of "must haves". I never thought I'd want a short barreled Remington or the hassle of shortening it either. I figured the conversions I have with the Rems and the 45LC would be satisfying enough. Now I want a 44 Rem cuz they are authentic and if I want that then I may as well get the 38LC with the heeled bullet and the percussion barrel. Now I'll have to save money for Kirst conversions and bullet moulds and special modified crimping dies and probably hollow based bullets. That brings up the fact that I thought the heeled bullet in the 44 Rem and the 44Colt conversions was changed over to the hollow based bullet before it was all over so would a hollow based bullet be authentic in a 44 Rem conversion or a 44 Colt conversion? Curse you guys.;) :D
 
Old Remington

Mec, the pics of the old Remington are cool. Was FFg powder used because of the age of the revolver?:confused: Are you pointing out that maybe the originals had chambers close to or a little over the groove diameters in the barrels? I've wanted to know what originals had in the grooves and chambers for a long time. Especially the Colts.
 
Wayner,
Got no idea about the chambers of old C & B Colts, but I know anything that shot or was converted to shoot 44 CF had .451 grooves, across the board. Which means the 44 CF and the 44 Rem was one and the same. Remington just called theirs 44 Remington for Remington and Colt conversions All of the 44 Cal C & B pistols had .451 grooves as I understand it. I have seen several different 44 C & B conversions to 44 CF, Star, Colt, Rem. Rogers and Spencer, etc.(none had bbl liners) if they were chambered for 44 CF then the 44 Rem. would interchange.
As for the hollow based 44's. All I know is that Remington made this 44 Rem. heeled base bullet and load until 1895 then discontinued it. The 44 Rem. shoots pretty well.
 
Yea, Mec,...those pics of that ole Remington are way too cool!
Plus the fact that some guy is testing different loads in it. If I had an old one, I'd probably be tempted to shoot it, too.

Old Dragoon,....thanks for your input on the bolt. When you say "lock" you mean bolt, right? I'm somewhat confused cause you use both terms "lock" and "bolt".

look to see if some yahoo tightened the hand screw too far in and deformed the forks of the bolt.
Click to expand...



When you mention the "hand screw" do you mean the Trigger/Bolt Spring Screw? The Trigger/Bolt spring is forked , one side for tensioning the trigger, the other for tensioning the bolt. I know we all can have different terms for the various parts,.....lol.... I tend to refer to the part names such as used by VTI gunparts. I hope I don't come off as a "Term Snob" or somthin like that,...LOL!! I think I know what you're trying to describe, though,....but want to make sure cause you're probably right about some guy overtightening something. I notice the trigger/bolt screw is sticking out a little far on the right side of the frame too,..from overtightening.
 
Oldelm,
I think I edited it to say Bolt.
The bolt has two "forks at the rear above the mtg screw(bolt and trigger screw)that slide up beside the hammer and are activated by the hammer cam these were spread and bent in my pistol.

The screw that attaches the hand to the hammer is what I refer to as the hand screw. Mine was half way through the hand or more and stuck out the back side of the hammer near the cam so it bound the bolt forks or at least one, when cocked and bent the forks. May not be the correct terminology. I just calls them as I sees them. LOL

In my pistols the sides of the bolt that protrude from the frame are perpendicular to the frame bottom, like the picture of your Uberti bolt. Your
" Shooter" appears that the bolt sides are NOT perpendicular to the frame. That the bolt is cocked in the frame somehow...may be the forks are bent.
 
Wayne Iread it but I can't believe it...you want a what? LoL! How can you not I am about ready to pilage every 7-11 in town to get one..but I won't, you know my luck. And I'd rather be shootin.

Old Dragoon and Mec good info and pics. Yor LiL Angels is a big hit Old Dragoon... but if you won't give that one up I'd surely love to have the Big angel with the ejector...HeHe!

Oldelm congradulations and owning a "Shooters REM" and a good one too!
I just tuned my old Armi San Paolo Rem when cleaning it from the shoot that Old Dragoon and I had. Got that bolt popin up there better than ever now.
I didn't undrstand when you said yours was crooked...or I would a said somethin...bet you're glad..
 
Old Dragoon,......ok,... yup, I see what you're saying now. Yes, the sides on the Shooters bolt being at a slant makes me wonder about what's causing that. I'll have to get in there and take it apart and see what's happening, but thanks for the heads-up on that possible problem. Now I'm better prepared to know what to look for.;)

Smokin,.....thanks! I think this Shooters Rem is gonna work out ok, thanks to all yous folks suggestions, tips, encouragement.

What's the difference between Armi San Paolo ...and Armi San Marco? Was wondering.
 
Nope, NO! NADA, don't wanna let that "angel" go either, nor the shiny blue one.
I do have a question though, when you were shooting the little "Angle" did your sight picture stay the same as you used with your Sn paolo??? or was it flat across the top of the sights??? Tryuing to figure if i need to remove some off the top of the front sight. You shot it better than I did.
I loved the shots from the Blue gun hit that juice bottle, then when it stopped, hit it again, and again when it stopped, and again, and once thru it. Darn I was proud of that, and the gun. The one with the ejector shot as good too.
I'll get the kinks out of the "Avangeing Angel" and I'll be able to shoot it that well too. Had a great time.
Be looking for you Sunday at the CAS match. We start at 9:00 A.M.
 
Differant companies Oldelm, ASM was bought out by Uberti, ASP was bought by Euroarms around 2000. The Euro and Paolos are smaller framed and I believe more the size of the Originals...Old Dragoon can you verify that. Anyway both Armi San Paolo and Euroarms are a high end product.
 
With yours I held flat across with the sights and at the bottom of target at 25 yards. With my ASP front site at the bottom of the rear and about 4" below the target bottom at 25 yards.
 
I cannot for sure verify that, but it looked and felt like my old original. I love the feel of that pistol! You shot her good too.
I know one thing...I'm scouring the auctions for a San Paolo Remmy....LOL
 
I'd love to have a pair a them ASPs... I may buy a Euroarms one someday they aren't that much more expensive. I have talk to them via email the were very nice and said the Euro parts would inter cahnge with the ASP and sent me a parts list to order from... They are the same frame size so maybe the same tooling is bein used and called Euroarms now...don't know for sure...
 
Smokin,.....Here's a question for you about the Euroarms/ASP '58 Rem Armys. Would they accept the Kirst .44 Colt conversion cyl., and if so, .....the Pietta or Uberti flavor? Just wondering.:)
 
Oldelm,
SG and I tried to see if my Kirst would fit his ASP and it would not the length of the cylinder is different, not much, and the Kirst started to go in but was bound by , either the hand or the bbl or both. That close but no cigar. The cylinder Dia may be different also, didn't get it in far enough to tell.
 
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