Opinions on Pain and the Ethical Taking of Animals.

The suffering of shot animals was one of the things about hunting that made me an anti-hunting type person. As I came to understand hunting more, I realized that any pain an animal feels is not the fault of the hunter, it's the fault of Nature. If the aninal feels tremendous pain upon being shot, well, that's just the way Nature intended it.

So, as it turns out, most animals don't even feel much pain, when taken ethically. This thread made me think of two things:

One, the many, many tales of shark attack victims who didn't even know they had lost a limb until they got out of the water and someone said "You're leg is missing."

Two, the assasination of Anwar Sadat. One of the guys in the seating area had his elbow shattered by a bullet. I mean, shattered, with bones sticking out, and everything, right there on TV. The guy just sat there, holding his arm, waiting for someone to attend to him. He looked concerned, but that's all.

Neither of those injuries could be considered an "ethical take" type of wound, but there was little physical suffering. An ethical shot surely produces much more severe and body-wide shock, suppressing the pain, and killing the animal within seconds.

I continue to learn.

-boing
 
boing, Please try to understand me here. If you are a vegitarian I can somehow understand your position but I can't agree. Like I said, some folks feel butter beans feel pain.

Big Mac's walked around on all fours "once upon a time"

I have always been moved when I have had game on the ground. I know that the game is for my table and my and my family's nourishment. I know that I have not used anything other than my skills to harvest this game. You know we are talking about fishing and such here!

I hate to interdispose the hunting/self defense question but "Yeah, it's most likely gonna hurt!"
Still willing to ramble, Hank
 
I'm not sure I understand your post, Hank.

Did you think I was decrying hunting because it hurt the animals? I used to, but not anymore. Whether it hurts them or not isn't really relevant. Life and death are full of pain, and the death of one creature means the life of another. It's pretty pure, in my opinion, and can't be denied.

Or did it sound like I was trying to comfort myself with the thought that when an animal gets shot it doesn't hurt? Subconciously, maybe I was. But the (concious) thrust of my post was that not every animal goes through enormous suffering when it has been shot, which is what many people think, and what I used to think.

In any event, it's not fun to be shot!

BTW, I ventured into vegetarianism at the behest of my wife, but it just didn't take. I like meat. It's yummy! Sure, I could survive on processed soy protein and distilled water, but I want to do more than just survive, I want to live! :D

-boing
 
I'm the kind of person that has never hunted game, but I think the sport may be too much for me. I will fish without remorse, but I think fish are too undeveloped to know what pain is. Ethically, the idea of killing an animal repluses me. Even worse if the animal had to go through suffering. It would be a lot easier for me to put down a person than an animal. Maybe it's the reasoning for the action that messes with me ethically. And animals never really did anything to deserve getting waxed (unless it was a charging bear), yet a person threating your personal safety is always a good reason to pull the trigger.

Well maybe i'll change my mind if I start to hunt... we'll see...
 
mic007tfp:
Don't start hunting if you don't know why.

It's a very complex set of emotions that the thinking man goes through when he pulls the trigger on an animal that he has been observing and admiring. I'm speaking other than vermin control; that's diferent. I recall the last deer I shot with a certain thrill mixed with a tinge of sadness. I admired him, and stalked him and just barely had a shot at him. I gave thanks for him where he lay, and stood in awe for a minute.
But, after that minute, I got very busy, because it was getting dark fast, and I wanted every ounce of venison I could get out of him!

I am a predator, and a hunter. While I have some more intellectual reasons to hunt than "because I am a hunter," that is probably the strongest, most honest one.

Some people are hunters, but don't know it yet. They should not hunt until they do.

If you don't know you are a hunter, then don't. If you are one, then welcome!

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Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap?
 
All you non-hunters...Try reading 'The Wildlife Game' by Ron Thomson at your local library before considering going out in the bush. You are either a hunter or you are not. If not or unsure - please start on house-flies with a Trumark "snapshot" rubber band-gun and see how you go!

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***Big Bunny***
 
No boing, it's because I didn't understand and fully appreciate your post. I can understand what you are saying. Like they say, read twice in my case more and post once.
Best regards, Hank
 
I gotta say, yes I think animals feel pain, but not in the same context that we feel pain, I mean look at birds or deer, sitting on ground coverd with ice, walking through water in the middle of the winter, and not have your feet freeze off...
when you look at how animals are "designed" and most that are eaten by other animals, they are eaten when they are still kickin, would it not make sence that they would not feel the pain of that, (those poor fuzzy little warm soft furry loving animals) Guess it just goes to show ya that the same people that are fighting for "animal rights" are the same ones that don't know a damn thing about what an animal can and will actally do...


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---snoman---
 
Scene: Three couples of us at a steak house having dinner. I comment, "Gee. Tomorrow is Deer Season Eve!"

One of the wives promptly starts reaming me for being a hunter. I asked if somehow Bambi were more noble than a cow. I noted that all of us were drooling beef juice down our collective chins. Somehow I failed to understand how doing my own meat-getting and processing--vice hiring it done--made me evil.

Her profound intellectual response was, "Oh. I never thought about it like that..."

Whether you are vegan or omnivore: In order to eat, something is gonna die.

The animal rightists would have us believe that animate life has higher moral value than inanimate life. Okay, fine. A mouse
thus has higher moral value than a sequoia, right? Would you like my recipe for redwood-leaf tea? Or sequoia-root soup? I'll have it ready, not long after I cut down a redwood and a sequoia...But we won't eat a mouse, noSir!

Aside from anything else, hunting is a way to be physically as well as emotionally connected to your forebears of thousands of years gone. Homo Sap has gone from throwing rocks to spears and then bows and later guns. The means have changed but the basic purpose has not.

Some often claim that since food is available in grocery stores, there is no need to provide your own. Yet, these same people--while denying you or me the right to some emotional satisfaction--yowl and howl about "self-esteem" and "personal achievement" as though they and they alone are the arbiters of such terms. Caca de toro.

Nuff fer now, Art
 
And, Art, they are denying you and me our right to our heritage, and our physical tendancy, that is, to predate.

Man (that's with a capital "M") is a hunting species. To do otherwise, is to deny your tendancy. Some express this in diferent ways. For me, it's blood.



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Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap?
 
Nice thread among all participants. Nuff said? Iv'e never shot myself or had someone else do it to me. Who knows, grits may have feelings too.
Best to all,
Hank
 
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