MeekAndMild
New member
Come back and ask that same question when you get your first set of trifocals.
Opinions: Lever action rifle for hunting.
- Thread starter wyrdone
- Start date
Rich Lucibella
Staff
Mete-
That's really threading the needle, but I can see the point (no pun intended). However, the scope creates a significantly higher mechanical offset between line of sight and bullet path than iron sights.
Meek-
Point well taken, Valid reason. Thanks.
Rich
That's really threading the needle, but I can see the point (no pun intended). However, the scope creates a significantly higher mechanical offset between line of sight and bullet path than iron sights.
Meek-
Point well taken, Valid reason. Thanks.
Rich
Rich, I'm 99% in agreement with you on the scoped LA thing. Putting glass on a handy rifle just makes it less handy and far more delicate, while usually making it slower to acquire targets. I've counseled many to ditch the scopes. The best thing you can do, in my opinion, is put a decent receiver peep on your rifle (which extends your sight radius by about 1/3 or better), and give it a good trigger job and a sling. Then practice. 
(I've a friend who stumbled across a pre-'64 M'94 in .30-30 that was just worn enough. He was going to put a scope, etc on it, but took my advice and instead spent $60 on a trigger job and receiver-mounted Williams peeps. He asked me to sight it in for him while he was at work. I got not one, not two, but three groups of Hornady Custom 150g .30-30 to go under 1.25" at 100, with one group right at an inch. Sad part is, this friend of mine can't consistantly hit a paper plate at 100 yards with it from a rest. He's got one hell of a deer-stick-- now he just needs to practice!)
That said, I must say that I was VERY impressed with how handy the intermediate relief 2.3X Leupold Scout Scope can be on the excellent low-sitting AO forward mount on an 1895 Guide Gun. Lord knows that the groups shrunk to about 1/3 of their iron-sighted counterparts at 100 yards, as well. (Hey, it's nice to know a .45-70 carbine will turn in an honest 1.5" group!) There's a lot to be said, especially at dusk and dawn, for a little better view of your target. 28mm is a mite bit bigger light-gatherer than even my 33 year old pupils. Lord knows my dad's 60-sumpin' year-old pupils could use the favor!
Life is a trade-off. I'd rather have the bulk and know the shot's good than have a handy rifle and worry about a lousy shot at 120 yards, at 5 minutes 'til end of shootin' light.
(I've a friend who stumbled across a pre-'64 M'94 in .30-30 that was just worn enough. He was going to put a scope, etc on it, but took my advice and instead spent $60 on a trigger job and receiver-mounted Williams peeps. He asked me to sight it in for him while he was at work. I got not one, not two, but three groups of Hornady Custom 150g .30-30 to go under 1.25" at 100, with one group right at an inch. Sad part is, this friend of mine can't consistantly hit a paper plate at 100 yards with it from a rest. He's got one hell of a deer-stick-- now he just needs to practice!)That said, I must say that I was VERY impressed with how handy the intermediate relief 2.3X Leupold Scout Scope can be on the excellent low-sitting AO forward mount on an 1895 Guide Gun. Lord knows that the groups shrunk to about 1/3 of their iron-sighted counterparts at 100 yards, as well. (Hey, it's nice to know a .45-70 carbine will turn in an honest 1.5" group!) There's a lot to be said, especially at dusk and dawn, for a little better view of your target. 28mm is a mite bit bigger light-gatherer than even my 33 year old pupils. Lord knows my dad's 60-sumpin' year-old pupils could use the favor!
Life is a trade-off. I'd rather have the bulk and know the shot's good than have a handy rifle and worry about a lousy shot at 120 yards, at 5 minutes 'til end of shootin' light.
MeekAndMild
New member
That is the major problem with see-through scope bases. But see-throughs do preserve an element of 'handiness', even for us visually challenged Geritol quaffers. It is more like looking through a toilet paper tube than looking at sights.
Rich Lucibella
Staff
Matt-
The Leupold Scout Scope a light gatherer? Have you actually worked with it in low light? After hunting them exclusively for 3 years (other than iron sights) I've completely dismissed the Scout scope for all but daylight hunts due to my experience in low light.
I've come full circle to the 1.75X6 Leupold for scoped hunting. Not quite as "carry-able" as the Scout setup, but that's why I go with iron sights for all 100-150 yd guns.
Rich
The Leupold Scout Scope a light gatherer? Have you actually worked with it in low light? After hunting them exclusively for 3 years (other than iron sights) I've completely dismissed the Scout scope for all but daylight hunts due to my experience in low light.
I've come full circle to the 1.75X6 Leupold for scoped hunting. Not quite as "carry-able" as the Scout setup, but that's why I go with iron sights for all 100-150 yd guns.
Rich
Roman Knoll
New member
I would like to add my two cents regarding use of low magnification scopes in low light.
In my experience, the main problem is thin duplex reticule found in prevailing number of scopes manufactured these days. Thin cross hair works perfect in daylight but is practically useless in low light conditions – whatever the magnification.
I once managed to shoot red stag 3 o’clock in the night using rifle equipped with 2.5x scope, only because it had a thick central post in the reticule. The snow helped me to see this stag, but without visible cross hair, 100 yard shot wouldn’t be possible.
At one other occasion, I hunted wild board in Germany, also in the night. This particular hunt was unexpected – we were supposed to shoot only during the day, so I brought a rifle with variable 3-9x40 scope. I could see approaching boar with naked eye but since I couldn’t see reticule at all, I had to pass this shot. Cranking up till full power didn’t help at all.
Roman
In my experience, the main problem is thin duplex reticule found in prevailing number of scopes manufactured these days. Thin cross hair works perfect in daylight but is practically useless in low light conditions – whatever the magnification.
I once managed to shoot red stag 3 o’clock in the night using rifle equipped with 2.5x scope, only because it had a thick central post in the reticule. The snow helped me to see this stag, but without visible cross hair, 100 yard shot wouldn’t be possible.
At one other occasion, I hunted wild board in Germany, also in the night. This particular hunt was unexpected – we were supposed to shoot only during the day, so I brought a rifle with variable 3-9x40 scope. I could see approaching boar with naked eye but since I couldn’t see reticule at all, I had to pass this shot. Cranking up till full power didn’t help at all.
Roman
"After hunting them exclusively for 3 years (other than iron sights) I've completely dismissed the Scout scope for all but daylight hunts due to my experience in low light.
I've come full circle to the 1.75X6 Leupold for scoped hunting. Not quite as "carry-able" as the Scout setup, but that's why I go with iron sights for all 100-150 yd guns."
I thought I'd bring this truth out once again. I do have scout rifles-since 1979, but they do blow for hunting IMHO- after having sunlight from behind me block out my shot at more than one trophy. Rich being entirely correct about they suck for lowlight gathering, of course an Aimpoint is WONDERFUL mounted in the same place! However, like Rich, I BUY Leupold 1.75-6 VariX 3's(the best bar none IMHO) and the same in Burris signiture Safari model (with lighted reticule) for serious game guns! I have some Old German low power variables (can't aford $$$$ for new ones!) and some old Fixed Power K-3 and K2.5 Weaver steel Microtracks that would be excellent on that 30-30 ! A good clean 70's Weaver steel Micro Track with post is an EXCELLENT, near bullet proof optic for a 'brush gun'
I've come full circle to the 1.75X6 Leupold for scoped hunting. Not quite as "carry-able" as the Scout setup, but that's why I go with iron sights for all 100-150 yd guns."
I thought I'd bring this truth out once again. I do have scout rifles-since 1979, but they do blow for hunting IMHO- after having sunlight from behind me block out my shot at more than one trophy. Rich being entirely correct about they suck for lowlight gathering, of course an Aimpoint is WONDERFUL mounted in the same place! However, like Rich, I BUY Leupold 1.75-6 VariX 3's(the best bar none IMHO) and the same in Burris signiture Safari model (with lighted reticule) for serious game guns! I have some Old German low power variables (can't aford $$$$ for new ones!) and some old Fixed Power K-3 and K2.5 Weaver steel Microtracks that would be excellent on that 30-30 ! A good clean 70's Weaver steel Micro Track with post is an EXCELLENT, near bullet proof optic for a 'brush gun'
Any of those calibers will do the trick for you. My grandfather killed alot of moose and caribou w/ a lever action .30-.30. I killed an elk in his bed with one a few years ago. It was a 65 yard shot. Buy what you'll feel confident hunting with and then shoot it ALOT. Best of luck to ya!
cleve land
Inactive
I have used a Browning Lever Rifle in 308 since the '80's. It is as handy as the 30-30's and has the advantage of the 308 round. A BLR is worth the cost IMHO
mikescotters
Inactive
I have a guide gun in 45/70 and I agree with Rich about not scoping a lever gun. The guide gun carries so well that it would be foolish to ruin it with a scope. If you want a long rage gun, go buy a bolt action and mount a scope on it.(better yet, get both, like me)
My dad has the same problem that you mentioned, meek.
So far he has refused to get bifocals. He has to take his glasses off to read anything and there is no way he can use iron sights. It's funny now, but I have his genetics.
My dad has the same problem that you mentioned, meek.
So far he has refused to get bifocals. He has to take his glasses off to read anything and there is no way he can use iron sights. It's funny now, but I have his genetics.
Mannlicher
New member
Rich,
I have scopes on most of my lever guns these days. I like old Weavers, K2.5 or V4.5 20mm tubes, with low Weaver rings. Old eyes need the help. The V4.5 scopes are particularly good for low light, with the thick tapered post and thin cross reticle.
I have scopes on most of my lever guns these days. I like old Weavers, K2.5 or V4.5 20mm tubes, with low Weaver rings. Old eyes need the help. The V4.5 scopes are particularly good for low light, with the thick tapered post and thin cross reticle.
John Y Cannuck
New member
TRIFOCALS! ARRRG, Bi focals are bad enough. Thankfully, I can still use a peep sight for hunting, without the dang things. I love my '94 Winchesters, and the 30-30 is fine for deer and black bear up here.
I love the ole 30-30.......
Hard to beat something that has likely taken more deer over history than anything else.... I am always happy to see ammo for 30-30 just about every place I have been. It seems to be a nice price when I get it too.... good luck and the choice is yours......lots of good guns out there....
Hard to beat something that has likely taken more deer over history than anything else.... I am always happy to see ammo for 30-30 just about every place I have been. It seems to be a nice price when I get it too.... good luck and the choice is yours......lots of good guns out there....
MeekAndMild
New member
I know 45-70 wasn't one of the choices, but last weekend I sighted in my Marlin in 45-70. It shoots better than my 35 year old .35. (This might have something to do with the fact my .35 has had a cracked forend for the entire time I've owned it?) I shot better with it and new Remington factory loads than I was doing with my bolt action .270, though I admit I was shooting up some 3 and 4 year old Winchester ammo of mixed batches on the .270.
At 100 yards, kneeling from behind the bench I was shooting consecutive pairs of shots within 1 1/4 between centers. This was with five minutes cooldown time between pairs. Pairs were drifting about 3 inches apart because I haven't found a fully settled stance with it yet, but with the .35 earlier this year I was shooting more like 2 1/2 inch pairs with drift up to 5-6 inches.
It wasn't the ammo. I seldom shoot well with Remington core lokt ammo. It wasn't the scope either. I have a Leupold on the .270 and was using a 32 mm Bushnell Sportview on the 45-70, set at 3 power. It wasn't me, because I'm generally a crappy shot and I have a noticable tremor, so it had to be the gun.
At 100 yards, kneeling from behind the bench I was shooting consecutive pairs of shots within 1 1/4 between centers. This was with five minutes cooldown time between pairs. Pairs were drifting about 3 inches apart because I haven't found a fully settled stance with it yet, but with the .35 earlier this year I was shooting more like 2 1/2 inch pairs with drift up to 5-6 inches.
It wasn't the ammo. I seldom shoot well with Remington core lokt ammo. It wasn't the scope either. I have a Leupold on the .270 and was using a 32 mm Bushnell Sportview on the 45-70, set at 3 power. It wasn't me, because I'm generally a crappy shot and I have a noticable tremor, so it had to be the gun.
Young_Buck
New member
30/30
I just got myself an old 30/30 great condition for a great price and most people have sung praises about my rifle but were always quick to quote the limitations. As for the scope issue I personally will never put a scope on a rifle like my Model 94 as I am goin to be doin most of my hunting in fairly dense bush and I am hoping to break it in hunting black bear when the season opens in April but also I am big on how the rifle looks and the model 94 just wasn't ment to look good with a scope it destroyes the lines of a beatiful rifle.
I just got myself an old 30/30 great condition for a great price and most people have sung praises about my rifle but were always quick to quote the limitations. As for the scope issue I personally will never put a scope on a rifle like my Model 94 as I am goin to be doin most of my hunting in fairly dense bush and I am hoping to break it in hunting black bear when the season opens in April but also I am big on how the rifle looks and the model 94 just wasn't ment to look good with a scope it destroyes the lines of a beatiful rifle.