Onward Allusion
New member
Buffalo Bore. Their 158gr LSWC +P is pretty stout.
Opinion about 38Sp ammo
- Thread starter k in AR
- Start date
Model12Win
Moderator
FBI load. Non better.
ShootistPRS
New member
You don't mention what you are using the loads for but you have chosen the XTP loads so I will assume that this is a carry weapon and you practice with the 38 special over the 357 ammo it was made for.
Light bullets will have less muzzle rise but not as much penetration. If you are shooting targets penetration is not important. In it's original loading the 38 Special is anemic at best but the +P loadings bring it up to the same level as 9mm ammo. For a good compromise between penetration and trajectory it is hard to beat the 135 - 140 grain bullets. For all out penetration the 158 grain loading in +P is a good round and your gun will probably shoot them well.
For factory loads the Lawman ammo is pretty good if you can find it and Federal used to have fairly good power. Hornady as late is trying to build a name and their ammo is definitely worth a look. Basically you need to find ammo that works for you in your gun at the ranges you use it.
You will have a lot more choices if you reload but that is for another topic.
Light bullets will have less muzzle rise but not as much penetration. If you are shooting targets penetration is not important. In it's original loading the 38 Special is anemic at best but the +P loadings bring it up to the same level as 9mm ammo. For a good compromise between penetration and trajectory it is hard to beat the 135 - 140 grain bullets. For all out penetration the 158 grain loading in +P is a good round and your gun will probably shoot them well.
For factory loads the Lawman ammo is pretty good if you can find it and Federal used to have fairly good power. Hornady as late is trying to build a name and their ammo is definitely worth a look. Basically you need to find ammo that works for you in your gun at the ranges you use it.
You will have a lot more choices if you reload but that is for another topic.
Federal HST certainly looks interesting. I'm a fan of the HST 9mm loads because they are among the best, if not the best, performers and can be had in 50-rd boxes for almost half the cost of other SD rounds. My 38 carry load in the 135+p Gold Dot for the same reasons. If the same is true of the HST 38, I'm definitely interested.
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4336-BUG-s-380-ACP-vs-38-Sp
http://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/wadcutter-ammo-self-defense/
Here are a couple of internet references to folks who have tested .38 Special ammo.
With any handgun, do be aware of over penetration and what's beyond your threatening target (the bad guy).
Also, plan on hitting the threat at least 3 times. One study indicated it generally takes 2+ hits to stop a threat.
Next, be able perform a reload as you may expend all rounds in your revolver just to get those 3 hits per bad guy.
Note: wadcutters in a speedloader don't always load well as it's difficult to line up all five to eight rounds at the same time.
Me? I'm not particularly ammo brand & model specific but will choose a good name brand JHP round. I've been issued .38 Special +P Winchester Ranger RA38B bonded 130gr. and usually load up with that. As it's issued, my employer policy says I shall use it (when working).
Also reference:
http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/an-alternate-look-at-handgun-stopping-power
http://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/wadcutter-ammo-self-defense/
Here are a couple of internet references to folks who have tested .38 Special ammo.
With any handgun, do be aware of over penetration and what's beyond your threatening target (the bad guy).
Also, plan on hitting the threat at least 3 times. One study indicated it generally takes 2+ hits to stop a threat.
Next, be able perform a reload as you may expend all rounds in your revolver just to get those 3 hits per bad guy.
Note: wadcutters in a speedloader don't always load well as it's difficult to line up all five to eight rounds at the same time.
Me? I'm not particularly ammo brand & model specific but will choose a good name brand JHP round. I've been issued .38 Special +P Winchester Ranger RA38B bonded 130gr. and usually load up with that. As it's issued, my employer policy says I shall use it (when working).
Also reference:
http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/an-alternate-look-at-handgun-stopping-power
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In my model 60 I carry the Speer Gold dot SB. Considering its been unavailable since before cheap 22 ammo dried up I admit I haven't shot this round in years. Just realized this means I have not rotated my carry ammo in a while.
All of my K frame and L frame are loaded with 158 LSWCHP+p. I shoot a lot of 158 LSWC over 3.0-3.5 of bullseye. I know that a 158 gr bullet is going to go where I point it. After reading this as I typed it I think its time I shot all my carry ammo and load every thing with 158 rounds.
All of my K frame and L frame are loaded with 158 LSWCHP+p. I shoot a lot of 158 LSWC over 3.0-3.5 of bullseye. I know that a 158 gr bullet is going to go where I point it. After reading this as I typed it I think its time I shot all my carry ammo and load every thing with 158 rounds.
Good Morning, camsdaddy,
You have it wired.
I have duty ammo that has to be 35 years old. It still works.
You're right about replacing carry ammo every year. Where I used to work, our duty ammo was replaced every year.
I've recently bought two boxes of the FBI load. I don't often carry, if ever, even though I legally can. But when I drive to Eastern Sierra fishing holes, my GP 100 is loaded with the FBI load. When we actually get out to fish, my GP 100 is loaded with 180 grain .357 Mag rounds, which would work a lot better on black bears.
You have it wired.
I have duty ammo that has to be 35 years old. It still works.
You're right about replacing carry ammo every year. Where I used to work, our duty ammo was replaced every year.
I've recently bought two boxes of the FBI load. I don't often carry, if ever, even though I legally can. But when I drive to Eastern Sierra fishing holes, my GP 100 is loaded with the FBI load. When we actually get out to fish, my GP 100 is loaded with 180 grain .357 Mag rounds, which would work a lot better on black bears.
unclenunzie
New member
I'm surprised that the speer gold dot 135 gr +P load developed for the NYPD has not been represented as well as other proven loads in this thread.
I was able to find a copy of the summary document (via the internet way back machine) produced by ATK/Speer. Seems very impressive to me.
I will say that before I became aware of this load, I was very happy with buffalo bore's version of the FBI load in my 2.25" SP101. Felt like a low end magnum round, but controllable in that revolver. Never tried it in my 642
Here is a link to an archived copy of the speer document.
http://web.archive.org/web/20070115000000*/http://le.atk.com/pdf/SpeerTech38_135HP.pdf
I was able to find a copy of the summary document (via the internet way back machine) produced by ATK/Speer. Seems very impressive to me.
I will say that before I became aware of this load, I was very happy with buffalo bore's version of the FBI load in my 2.25" SP101. Felt like a low end magnum round, but controllable in that revolver. Never tried it in my 642
Here is a link to an archived copy of the speer document.
http://web.archive.org/web/20070115000000*/http://le.atk.com/pdf/SpeerTech38_135HP.pdf
I am as well. The Speer 135gr Short Barrel Gold Dot is all I'll carry in my 2" J-frame.
Every test I've seen has shown it to be consistent, with reliable expansion and penetration. The NYPD recommends it for good reason.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k890Rio2oBY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Fs4lFOvuTw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khazbS9pWjE
HighValleyRanch
New member
I watched a couple of youtube videos tonight on .38 special +P ammo's.
Out of Ruger LCR, one guy measured the Gold Dot .38 +P 135 gr. GDHP at 786 fps yielding 185 ft # ME.
But the Hornady .38 special +P Critical Defense got 948 fps from his LCRX yielding 220 ft. # ME.
Expansion were good from both.
But neither are close to the BB stuff!
I have some of the original Winchester Super X police 158 gr. and a green box of the Remington .38 special Hi-speed 95 grain S.J.H.P. for 2-2.5 inch barrels but saving them for vintage assaults!LOL One day I'll get a chrono and see what these yield.
Out of Ruger LCR, one guy measured the Gold Dot .38 +P 135 gr. GDHP at 786 fps yielding 185 ft # ME.
But the Hornady .38 special +P Critical Defense got 948 fps from his LCRX yielding 220 ft. # ME.
Expansion were good from both.
But neither are close to the BB stuff!
I have some of the original Winchester Super X police 158 gr. and a green box of the Remington .38 special Hi-speed 95 grain S.J.H.P. for 2-2.5 inch barrels but saving them for vintage assaults!LOL One day I'll get a chrono and see what these yield.
Strafer Gott
New member
+1 Nyclad I'm down to two boxes, and they aren't made anymore.
Model12Win
Moderator
I'd punch a baby to get ahold of some of them Nyclads. Great load.
The pic below will give you some idea of comparable expansion and the velocities from a 2" bbl.'d Smith J-frame chambered in .38 Spl. All loads were shot into water (a swimming pool) then recovered. What it will not tell you is how that bullet will react when it meets flesh and bone. The Silver Tip and the Hydra-shok were both at or about 900 fps velocity, BTW. HTH's Rod
TheFriendlyMarksman
New member
I've never killed anybody with my 38, so I don't know what to tell you about bullet selection. I would use +P though. Standard pressure 38 is anemic.