One of those days...

I just read the entire thread. So sorry that this happened to you. I will think of it every time I head out to shoot at the range. Just goes to show that even with God and our founding fathers on our side, things can get pretty hairy.
I'm sure you will find a good job soon. Things always have a way of working themselves out. You'll see!

You take care of yourself, friend.
 
Chl

Zundfolge,
As a lapsed CHL holder in Tx, it is my understanding that if a company has a no firearms policy, the company policy trumps your CHL on their property.

Bob
 
Texas requires specific wording to be effective for trespassing. Without it, all they can do is fire you, no laws broken.
 
If the relevant body of Texas law is as "grey" as some described it, one wonders as to how the legislature managed to do so poor a job.

Re job performance, and or the lack thereof, come payday, do the members back up to the pay window? If not, they certainly should.
 
How did this all start again? I mean under what circumstance was the Head of Security so diligently looking into your vehicle in the first place.
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Honestly, it was my own fault.

For the third time in 2 years (or second time in three years...it's early and I'm out of coffee) the company engineering van had been stolen. When it was stolen, it was backed up to some storage trailers in the parking lot and over $30,000 worth of electronics were stolen. Upon hearing this, I asked what kind of security measures were in place.

After I was told by management representatives that there were no security measures in place to protect the company van and storage trailers, I nearly had a heart attack. So I took a look at the site, gave a list of security recommendations (which I used to do with Securitas), and advised them that the whole set-up would cost less than a few thousand dollars to implement and would require no additional personnel.

This made it up to senior management, who advised me that they had been informed that there were no security measures that could be put in place to protect the storage trailers and company vehicles.

Put simply, I made him look bad.

The fact that I went to the range on a regular basis was not exactly a secret. The Director and Co-Director of Customer Service both knew that I went to the range on a regular basis, and that I would have my weapon in my vehicle on the day I went. Even the CEO of North American Operations knew that I had an interest in firearms, we'd have conversations about it during lunch.

From what I've been advised by the Fort Worth Police Department, mid-level management at Uniden, and at least one member of senior management, the HoS had spent more than a month visually inspecting my vehicle. To see past the tinted windows he would actually press his face up against the glass, shielding his eyes with his hands.

When he saw what -might- be a weapon he bypassed North American management and contacted Security Operations at the home office in Japan. Their response, "Get him out of here." The order was sent from Japan to the North American security division, legal, and the bloody CEO of North American Operations.
 
So would all of your troubles have been avoided if you had a Texas CHL?
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For the most part. My weapon would have still been confiscated, because I was being terminated, but I fully understand that. I would have recieved my property back much quicker, however.

The one thing that pretty much every officer, the Detective who determined that charges would not be filed, and my legal representation have advised me is this. If you have a CHL, and you are entering a facility that bans firearms, your vehicle is then considered to be an extension of your home. You can lock your weapon in it all day long and not have anything to worry about, because you cannot legally take your weapon into the building you just entered.

Otherwise, the weapon cannot be transported, on local trips, in your vehical unless you are travelling to a destination that requires your weapon, such as the range, or the smith's, or a gun show.
 
If the relevant body of Texas law is as "grey" as some described it, one wonders as to how the legislature managed to do so poor a job.
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Honestly, I don't think that they did such a bad job, when the laws were originally written. They do give the local municipalities much more power and freedom in determining their own laws. It was a sound concept.

In today's socio-political climate though, I think the laws should be more concrete. There should be more definitive rulings on what is, and is not, allowed on the state level. Once that is determined, the local municipalities should be able to 'fine tune' local ordinances as needed.
 
He did what?! Holy crap, that is not cool.
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Tell me about it.

I can think of a few potential reasons that he did it. He may have wanted to guarantee that the blade and sheath would remain together while in custody.

But you know what, they could have used some of that sealing tape they used on my pistol to put a tag on my Athame and I would've been much happier.
 
The following is a "Traveler's Checklist" while traveling the Lone Star State:

Handgun Ownership: unrestricted.

Rifle and Shotgun Ownership: unrestricted.

Semi-Automatic Ownership: unrestricted.

Automatic Ownership: Must comply with federal law.

Firearm Law Uniformity: Preemption statute; Firearm laws uniform throughout the state.

Concealed Carry: Licenses granted on a "shall issue" basis; reciprocity available for non-residents with carry permits from certain other states.

Vehicle Carry and Transportation: Unlicensed individuals and non-residents may not carry handguns on or about their persons while in a vehicle (specific exemption for bonafide travelers); loaded rifles and shotguns may be carried in plain view or in a case. NOTE: It is up to the individual to prove they are a bonafide traveler.

The carry of handguns "on or about one's person" has been defined by the Texas courts to include any handgun within arm's reach of an individual whether concealed or open. Under one's seat, on the dash, in the glove box or even the back-seat are spatial positions which have been held to be "on or about one's person."

Texas law exempts individuals who are carrying handguns for self-protection while traveling the state on a "bonafide" journey or engaged in a lawfully related firearm activity such as hunting or target shooting. Although police should not arrest an individual who falls in these restrictions, any doubt on the part of law enforcement could result in delays or being held or arrested. Travelers unable to maintain the classification of a "bonafide traveler" should carry their handgun unloaded, cased and locked in the trunk. Texas law contains no prohibition on the transport of loaded rifles and shotguns. Such firearms may be carried in plain view anywhere in the vehicle or secured in a commercial gun case or gun rack.
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This looks pretty simple to me. You admitted you had a gun in your car, at work, in violation of the law, and then gave the police permission to search. Even if you HADN'T given them permission, they could have searched your car with probable cause plus exigent circumstances, which they had. I'd be more concerned about your employer giving all that information to another prospective employer instead of just verfying the dates bewteen which you worked there.

Consent, although not required to be "informed", has to be freely given, and if you're coerced by the police making you think bad things will happen if you don't consent, it's not freely given. Doesn't matter in your case though. Even if the consent was coerced, a search without a warrant would have been valid with the information they got from a named informant (the security person and presumably whoever they talked to) and your own admission that you had a gun and a bunch of ammo in there.


The officer marked your knife so that when it got to court he could testify that that is the knife he took from your vehicle, and there's the mark he put on it less than X amount of time after he seized it.

Are you a Pagan or are you a Wiccan?? Maybe the police in Texas, or your employer, were just prejudiced againts Pagans or Wiccans with knives, guns and bullets in their cars. Some traditionally religious person at your job probably tipped them off about your religious practices. You hadn't invited anyone to a handfasting where they saw you cut the cake with your knife, did you?

While it's not against the law to give your guns names, and carry pagan altar tools around, I'd be careful who you shared that information with if you ever have another court case pending or any property seized by the police. It might make things simpler......Oh, and DON'T tell your current employer you have a gun named "Jericho" and are a practicing Pagan if you plan to carry Baby Jericho and a few hundred rounds to work with you again. The uninformed might think that you brought Jericho to hold off security forces while you consecrate a human sacrifice with your altar knife. People are funny that way. I mean, how are they supposed to know, just by the double edged knife, whether you're a peace-loving Wiccan, or a human-sacrificing Pagan? Pretty much the same knife isn't it?? We've never had a problem with Wiccans, but there was a period where a band of Pagans were leaving their sacrifices laying all over town. They were the bad Pagans, not the motorcycle club Pagans.
 
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This sucks all the way around... You may want to ask your attorney if you should be talking about this in a public forum.

I hope you get your property back and a job soon. Since you have an attorney I would realy suggest that you stick with him/her and be an active participant, ask questions of him.
 
For the most part. My weapon would have still been confiscated, because I was being terminated, but I fully understand that.
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Uh... what? Police can confiscate your property if you get fired?

When he saw what -might- be a weapon he bypassed North American management and contacted Security Operations at the home office in Japan. Their response, "Get him out of here." The order was sent from Japan to the North American security division, legal, and the bloody CEO of North American Operations.
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Different cultures. This reinforces my belief that trans-national corps need heavy regulation. The idea that a Japanese company can fire someone in TX for going against traditional Japanese mores/culture, simply because TX is an at-will state, is appalling.
 
Maybe, but it shouldn't be. Companies should not be able to regulate what employees keep in their cars. I'd somewhat agree that companies should, as they generally do, fire people who break the law, but with all the crap that's illegal these days I'm not so sure even about that. It would have to be decided on a crime-by-crime basis.
The one thing that pretty much every officer, the Detective who determined that charges would not be filed, and my legal representation have advised me is this. If you have a CHL, and you are entering a facility that bans firearms, your vehicle is then considered to be an extension of your home. You can lock your weapon in it all day long and not have anything to worry about, because you cannot legally take your weapon into the building you just entered.
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This rationale should apply whether or not the employee has a ccw license. In fact, it should apply inside any building that doesn't have armed security agents, physical security features around the buildings, and metal detectors and bag searches. Unless they have measures in place that are effective at keeping bad people from bringing weapons or whatever else in, they should not be allowed to keep employees or peaceful visitors from bringing weapons in. The only reason most such corporate policies exist is because of liability nightmares. Allowing liability concerns to screw up people's lives is not wise.
 
Wynterbourne:

And I thought that, over the years, I had worked for some whorehouse type operations, which I had. The mob you worked for, as you described them, puts the worst of my former employers to absolute shame.

As to the business of vehicles being an "extension of ones home", I'm not at all up on Texas law, however as memory serves, in Louisania, your vehicle is that extension of your home. I wonder as to how that would impact on the requirement for a permit to carry concealed. I do not believe that such requirement applies in one's home. If one's automobile is one's home extended, would one need a concealed carry permit of license therein?

Seems a question for lawyers to answer.
 
Ok how about some good news, It is the opinioin of two atty at law that I talked to regarding employment law that you have had your privacy Violated and good reputation both slandered and libeled. This means that there are specific federal laws regarding what can be said regarding your termination and situation and many many things that can not. ALL that we can now safely divulged to people inquiring regarding past or current employers is confirmation of employment and dates of employment. we can not say they were fired or left seeking other opportunities. We can not say anything about work habits, I have been told by counsel that all I can say is "Gee, I wish he was still working here" if I liked the guy. Nothing else. Anything else may be construed as defamatory and slanderous.

So why is this good news. Cuz you are going to win a big A$$ lawsuit against at least a couple of companies here. Your former employer had absolutely No right to release any statements about you to the staffing company. Lawsuit Number 1 Find a really big name atty in your area who specials in BIG claims against corporations, and sue your former employers. Get the staffing company to reveal who it was who divulged the erroneous information to them. win big bucks, have wife happy as a clam, Lawsuit Number two, file against the staffing service for releasing that erroneous information to your wife corporation. win big bucks and buy that lear jet you have always wanted. lawsuit number three. Serve your eife company who offered you a job and then removed the offer with out pausing to verify that the information they were retracting the offer over was in fact false and knowing not something they were to have access to. win big and both of you retire to that private island you found with that airstrip for you new jet. this is not fantasy. this is a real case. Both of the guys I talk to specialise in wrongfull termination and employer malfeasance. This is a Federal case of violation of privacy and defamation. go for it. ride the big pony and win the brass ring.

Lawyer number 2 just called me back and said oh yeah add hate crime, defacement of a religious shrine/artifact is a Federal Hate Crime. Lawyer up buddy, they just decided you have worked for your last day.
 
I don't know that I'm quite as sanguine about it as GT Fool. However, there is no doubt in my mind that there's at least one high dollar suit in the offing here. It'd be well worth your time to interview a couple or three good labor lawyers in the area and see who'd be willing to take it on contingency.

If things occurred as you say, getting the facts into the record will not be nearly as difficult as you might think. You have the names; a good attorney will flesh out the facts in deposition.
Rich
 
Uh... what? Police can confiscate your property if you get fired?
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I don't believe so, unless the weapon is carried illegally. However, had I been in their situation, I would have attempted to confiscate the weapon. Look at it this way.

1 - The police had been called for a firearms related offense.
2 - I had over 100 rounds of ammunition and a handgun.
3 - I had multiple magazines available.
4 - I had just been terminated.
5 - The HoS had spent over an hour trying to get me arrested.
6 - I had just admitted to being a Pagan, which most people equate with 'Devil Worshipper'.

That's the textbook definition of 'someone likely to begin shooting' in most police officers eyes.

I wouldn't have wanted someone who'd just gone through that to have a handgun on them, were I an officer.
 
Oregon is a state which allows the employer to terminate for any cause or even without a cause.

We have a "no guns" policy on trust property but I and all of the instructors have a gun in their vehicles while at work. We didn't sign the policy agreement (which doesn't matter anyway), it's more for the students then anything else (some of which we need to have some sort of protection against :eek: ).

I made up my mind years ago that my personal protection is more important then a job. It's just something that you have to decide for yourself. And when we terminated one of the students from the program, I carried on my person for a few months due to this person was abit unstable, lived in the area, and was a known gun owner (rifles, they hunted). Not that I really expected that they would come back for "revenge" but just in case.

We cannot bar people off the streets from having a weapon on them if they come to the center because Oregon Law does not allow private businesses from barring CCW holders from doing so (as it should be). Sure, they can put up signs but they mean nothing (as it should be) and they can ask you to leave but the LEO's, if called, won't even show up because only the legislature can make laws concerning the carrying of firearms and the only places that are outlined are places where Federal Courts are placed (and federal buildings, and no, the post office is not one of them).

When you are employed, your employer (wrongly) can remove any rights that you think that you have. They can even ban you from smoking, eating meat, having sex outside of marriage (just see Florida and MI for this) and being obese. Even on your own time.

So you have to make up your own mind what you want to do for a job. You have no right to employment and so you work while you can and then, if need be, move on.

Not to rant or give a sermon but people put their own chains on themselves and "have to work and obey another" because they try to live outside of their means. Credit cards, impulse buying, etc.. So they give up their lives to another (and their Rights) just to bring in the money.

I, for one, won't allow anyone else to remove my security or Rights from me. This includes smoking (I will quit when I wish to quit), eating meat (I have to for the protein and muscle building), being obese (yeah, like that will ever be a problem right now, but if they start to attack people below their normal body weight (due to anything) then I'm in trouble).

As for consent to search, no warrent, no search. If the LEO's believe that they have PC then they can go through the steps to get a warrent, I'll wait. If they don't get a warrent, then they can go and make a report, you aren't getting into my car without one.

Wayne

(and the same goes for the house, no warrent, no search.)
 
As for consent to search, no warrent, no search. If the LEO's believe that they have PC then they can go through the steps to get a warrent, I'll wait. If they don't get a warrent, then they can go and make a report, you aren't getting into my car without one.
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The police don't need a warrant to search a car under most circumstances if they have probable cause. How would you stop them from searching your car Wayne? Same thing goes for your house under several circumstances. You'd shoot it out with the police because you don't agree with the way the Supreme Court intereprets "reasonable search"?

They don't even need probable cause to search your car for a weapon if they have you stopped lawfully and have reasonable suspicion to believe there's a weapon inside.
 
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