One of those days...

W

Wynterbourne

New member
Have you ever had 'one of those days'? Mine occured this past Monday.

Within the past few months, due to problems with my previous employer, I have left the security field. I went to work in the Customer Service department of a telecommunications equipment manufacturer, Uniden, here in Fort Worth.

Since I'm no longer in the security industry, my license to carry is no longer valid. As I do not, at this time, hold a CHL, the weapon normally stays at home. That is, unless I plan on going to the range after work.

On the days that I plan on going to the range, I take my gun bag. My range closes at 8:00 p.m., but I don't get off until 6:30 p.m.. So if I'm planning on going, I have to take my stuff with me.

The weapon is stored in one location. The ammunition is stored in another location, in a blue bag in the back of my SUV. Before I started doing this, I spoke to a representative of the Department of Public Safety who advised me that it was legal, provided the weapon is unloaded and the ammunition is stored in another location.

Well, on Monday, I come out for break to find the Head of Security for Uniden standing next to my truck, with a police car parked behind it. According to the officer, I was being removed from the property for having a weapon in my vehical. The officer asked me, flat out, if I had a weapon. I advised him that I did, the make and caliber of the weapon, and it's location. I advised him of the location of the ammunition, the types of ammunition, and the remaining contents of my gun bag.

The responding officer seemed suprised that I was being so candid about everything. However, he started having problems with the Head of Security, who spent the entire two hour encounter arguing that I should be arrested. It reached the point that a Fort Worth Police Sergeant had to be called to deal with the complaintant.

The Sergeant comes out and questions me regarding the incident. I repeated the information, and he promptly went over to gather information from the complaintant. The complaintant advised him that he had walked by my vehical and had seen the weapon.

It's odd. The Sergeant was told the exact location of the weapon and was not able to see it on casual inspection. The officer had to press his hands up against the glass, cupping his eyes, to be able to see through the tinted windows. Even then, he could only see the SLIGHTEST portion of what looked like what MIGHT have been a weapon. And that was -his- description of what he saw.

So I sign a consent to search form to allow them to remove the weapon from the vehical. I learned something very interesting from the search. Fort Worth Police, regardless of what you tell them, will COMPLETELY trash your vehical on any form of a search. It looked like a hurricane had hit the inside of my truck when they were done.

Here's a list of what was confiscated:

MRI Baby Eagle 9mm (MR9900) named 'Jericho'
100 rounds American Eagle 124gr FMJ 9mm Ammunition
020 rounds Federal 124gr Hydra-Shok Ammunition
1 IWB Holster
1 Shoulder Holster
1 Cleaning Kit
2 Gunlocks
2 Magazines
1 10-inch double-edged Athame

Needless to say, I lost my job. Even though it was contained inside of a vehical, the company has a policy against weapons on the property.

Legally, however, the police aren't certain whether or not I violated any laws. They're forwarding it to the Tarrant County District Attorney to see if charges need to be levied. So at the current time I'm looking at a possibility of no charges being levied, to the possibility of a Class A Misdemeanor for Unlawful Carry. And I have a Criminal Tresspass notice against me for all Uniden properties.

Here's the fun part. The Head of Security, seemingly unhappy that the officers were not arresting me, advised them that he would be forwarding complaints to their superiors. It turns out that part of the inside of our building is a Customs Facility (Free Trade Zone), and he's pushing for a felony charge.

I'm probably never going to see my weapon again. I've been told that, at the very least, it will remain in custody for at least 12 months. If I'm charged with anything it will not be returned. My Athame is confiscated, and will never be returned, as it is a double-edged blade.

I'll be honest. I never realized how much of a grey area weapons issues could be. I mean, you hear about some of the issues, but until you have it happen to you, you don't know just how unclear some of the laws are.

Over the past two days I've called a number of lawyers. Two have said that I'm in trouble and need to retain defense council. Two have said that I have nothing to worry about, and that no charges can be levied. One has said that I have possible grounds for a 'Wrongful Termination' suit, as it was contained in my vehical at the time. Five have said that they really don't know, and that they'll have to get back to me.

Four calls to the DPS have resulted in 4 different answers. These answers have ranged from 'You can't EVER have a weapon in your car if you don't have a CHL' to 'Oh yeah, it's ok as long as it's not loaded.'

Three different police departments have given different answers regarding weapons transport. One has said that I'm in the right. One has said that it can be transported from point to point, with ABSOLUTELY no stops in between. The officer stated that it doesn't matter where you're going to, or what you're doing, or how far you're travelling, you're not allowed to stop for ANY reason. The last one gave the most honest answer I've recieved to date, that it depends on the judge you get if you're charged.

The Tarrant County District Attorney's office stated that they haven't recieved the complaint yet. They stated that they are going to have to review the statutes and see what can be determined.

This is promising to be an 'interesting' year.
 
Wynterbourne-
Pretty clear to me that you're a polite and direct individual. Unfortunately, we live in a Police State and they can pretty much do as they please. Just two weeks ago a 50+ year old friend in your County was stopped. The 4 handguns in his car? No problem. But they busted him for the hunting knife!!!!! And he's about the nicest, most clean cut guy you can meet.

I suspect that you were singled out because someone knows you're a shooter and that you go to the range. I also suspect a Wrongful Termination suit would be a pretty good gamble on your part....if what you say is all true, I might be convinced to contribute to and start a collection here at TFL for that.

I'm no attorney, but I can't believe your method of transport was illegal. Nor do I believe they can keep those weapons indefinitely. If you're a Paid Up NRA Member, contact them for a specialist Attorney in your area.

DO NOT plead to even a Mis-D Weapons charge.....it's only a matter of time before a new Federal Law will render you unqualified to own a firearm. You've done nothing wrong, other than to possibly have violated company policies; that's a far cry from criminal action.
Rich
 
I'm ON your side but, I think you just struck out. Strike one. IIRC, Uniden is a GSA and DOD federal contractor. Did you have an employee manual? Did you read it? I suspect that it outlines what is prohibited and where. Strike two. IF there is a shared and free access parking lot and physical property for a Customs facility, you could be facing federal charges. Were there any posted notices? Strike three. You freely cooperated. Always refuse and demand to see your counsel. I agree that you need a competent attorney. Do whatever it takes. IMO, you could be charged with some nasty felonies and possibly a federal case. The big Q is, who TIPPED the security that you had a weapon? Keep cool and lawyer up. Seal up tigher than Tupperware, let your lawyer do the talking.
 
Man, that sucks.

We have a no weapons policy at my work also but I never did sign anything (we do have a policy that states that you must sign for any policy to be effective).

I've been carrying my .45 in my fanny pack for over four years now.

I do have a couple of questions... how did the SG (security guard) "see" your weapon? Was your range bag open?

Most states allow the extended cab windows of a truck to be tinted darker then what the states allow (here in Oregon, you can limo tint those windows or even the back but the sides have to be 35% or more).

Most trucks, with or without an extended cab, has compartments that you can stash things out of sight, either behind the seat or under the back seats (for extended cabs) in the compartment that is there.

In my truck, a 1981 GMC 3/4 ton, I can just pull back the top of the seat and stash my range bag or any amount of rifles that I wish. I also have a tinted (legal here) camper shell on the back of it that with a common blanket will hide anything (and I keep it locked).

Sucks that you lost your job and such over have LEGAL tools. Some companies are very anal on this crap (mine not being one of them) and I wish you will in getting another job. Just please, think about places that you can put things that so snoopy RAC (rent a cop) won't make out as a range bag and don't have your weapons showing from anyone on the street.

Wayne
 
Rule #1

DONT EVER CONSENT TO A SEARCH.

Politely say, Im sorry officer, but I dont consent to ANY searches. As long as nothing is in plain view in your truck, they cant search your car without your permission. If they ask you if there is a weapon in the truck, you say "am I free to go now, or are you detaining me?" ALWAYS excuse yourself in a situation like this. Most people dont know, this is what the bill of rights affords you as a free citizen. If you dont know your rights, you give them up.

It is your 4th amendment right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure. If you would have followed this procedure assertively, you would have avoided all your troubles. You might have still been fired, but that looks like it was going to happen anyway.

85% of seizures result in no charges. WHat does that really tell you they are after?
 
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Definately get a good lawyer. Contact a few of your pro gun organizations, as some of them will help you get counsel in these situations. I know in OHIO it is legal to carry your firearm in a vehicle, but it must be LOCKED in a COMPARTMENT OR CASE, and the ammo must be LOCKED in a seperate area. (If you don't have CCW) Read up on the laws for transport in your states code.

If you are all legal as far as the state laws are concerned, then the only laws you broke are Uniden company policy. Did you sign anything about weapons on company property? The ONLY thing I can see (mind you I'm no lawyer) is a possible charge "IF" Uniden parking lot is considered Federal Property in truth. Have your lawyer find out for SURE.

Good luck and keep us informed. (And if TFL sponsors a fund-raiser to help you I will be more than happy to help)
 
Derius T said:
I know in OHIO it is legal to carry your firearm in a vehicle, but it must be LOCKED in a COMPARTMENT OR CASE, and the ammo must be LOCKED in a seperate area. (If you don't have CCW) Read up on the laws for transport in your states code.
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Well, the ammo has to be in a separate compartment from the firearm, but there is no provision in Ohio law that says an unloaded firearm must be locked in a compartment or case. It is enough that the firearm is in plain sight and has the bolt open if that is possible. Check out ORC 2923.16

Back on topic: Lawyer up, Wynterbourne; and don't EVER consent to a search.
 
I'm back! - Update - LONG

Well, I’m back, and I do want to apologize for my absence. Upon the advise of my legal representation, I found myself forced to forgo the firearms community, in all of its forms, for the last few months. While I didn’t enjoy it, it was necessary, and I did pay the man enough to tell me what to do and what not to do.

I have to admit it’s been an interesting ride so far. Immediately after my termination from Uniden, my wife’s company offered me a job. Less than 24 hours prior to my start date, my wife’s department manager contacts my wife and notifies her that she may not be able to hire me. She stated that she had been contacted by their staffing company and advised of my issue. I have to admit, there were a few issues with this situation.

First of all, the information provided was COMPLETELY inaccurate. The staffing agency advised them that I had been found coming into the facility with a bag full of handguns, all loaded. They were advised that I had at least one on my person, loaded. They were advised that I’d been found with several hundred rounds of ammunition, loaded into magazines and ready for use, and with several knives on my person. They also advised her that it was believed that I’d been found with body armor. They stated that I had been arrested and charged with a felony.

To resolve the issue I had to visit my future employer with a list of the seized property, and to provide them with statements from the officers who responded to the issue.

Secondly, I wasn’t employed by the staffing agency at the time of the incident. I was a direct employee of Uniden. Admittedly, the staffing agency does handle the contingent staffing needs of both corporations, but they hadn’t employed me in some time. They should have NEVER been advised of the incident in the first place, and never should have advised my new employer, particularly since charges were never filed.

Tracking the case itself was an education in bureaucracy. The East Criminal Division of the Fort Worth Police Department was initially reviewing the issue. After several weeks, and no charges filed, it was transferred to the Intelligence Division. This is the division that handles Homeland Security issues, hate crimes, subversive/extremist groups, and terrorism.

<http://www.fortworthpd.com/homelandsecurity.htm>

The Intelligence Division did not file charges. After a few weeks, the incident was then transferred to the North Criminal Division for review. After a few more weeks, the Detective handling the case and I came to an agreement, and it was determined that no charges would be filed.

I found that I was in for another education when I went to retrieve my property. Namely, if you like your property, do NOT let the Fort Worth Police Department get their hands on it.

I went to the Property Division of the Fort Worth Police Department on Belknap. I found it interesting that there were neither guards nor metal detectors anywhere between the front door to the building and the basement. I arrive to see the unarmed officers sitting behind a thick sheet of Plexiglass, which had a 3 foot by 2 foot door open. The back door to the facility is unlocked and open to the street.

It took a little under five minutes to locate my weapon. It was placed on the table, cocked, with a magazine inserted. I will state that even though I knew that no charges were being filed, I was filled with a GREAT sense of relief as it was placed on the table in front of me. It was as if it was a sign that it was really over. Then I made the mistake of actually looking at my weapon.

Prior to its confiscation, my weapon had been in pristine condition. There was one VERY minor blemish to the finish inside of the trigger guard. It had just been detail cleaned and oiled the night before the incident.

The decocker/safety, extractor, trigger guard, hammer, firing pin, slide grooves, rear sight, and grip surfaces looked as if something had been spilled on them. It looked and felt almost like old coffee or soda, something with a high sugar content. It was quite literally caked on. Even the slide rails were some kind of caked on, viscous substance, with the consistency of Cosmoline.

The bottom half of the frame, forward of the trigger guard, was covered with scratches. I counted a minimum of 5 scratches approximately 3 inches in length. I found a scratch on the front of the grip. There were several minor scratches on the sides of the slide itself.

Additionally, there was a gouge in steel next to the rear sight. It’s negligible, but still annoying. The grip and one of the magazines had been wrapped in industrial sealing tape. The secondary magazine had a scratch running the length of the body. The factory magazine feed lip is severely bent.

The weapon had not been stored with its case. The case was kept with my holsters and miscellaneous equipment.

Next they find my ammunition. They normally do not give people their ammunition when they return their weapon. I’m convinced that it was my method of dress, dress clothes and tie, and my cordiality that encouraged them to give the ammunition to me without a second visit.

It felt kind of surreal. I’m sitting outside of the police station, looking at the street, smoking a cigarette, when they return my ammunition to me. Because they have not located my range bag yet, and had no packaging available, I’m standing there with my weapon in my hand. Three police officers walked by and didn’t say a word, just nodding as they went by. People are walking up and down the street, just outside of the alley way, and no one notices a thing.

They do take care of their ammunition. It was in a thick plastic bag, thicker than what my weapon was originally packaged in, that was pressed into a virtual airtight seal. Every round was accounted for. One of the boxes was ripped open accidentally, so the ammunition was packaged in a padded envelope.

After another 25 minutes pass, they return with my miscellaneous items. I have to admit that I was so excited that my items had finally been returned, and so relieved to be leaving, that I only did a quick inventory of my property and not an inspection. This would prove to be a mistake.

Let me define the word ‘willies’ for you. It’s leaving the police station, with 2 hookers on one side of the elevator, your wife on the other, and a cop behind you with a hand on his weapon because you can’t put your 10” double bladed knife in your bag. Then try walking across the street, during an apparent shift change, going past a group of preschoolers who are on a field trip.

After I get home, following a short celebratory dinner, I inspected the remainder of my property. My el-cheapo Uncle Mike’s holster is in perfect condition. My Tucker ‘Texas Heritage’ is ruined. It too appears to have had something spilled upon it, or rather inside of it. The leather looks like it’s been cut or torn, about 2 inches through the throat of the holster, and the front ‘wing’ has nearly been ripped off. The rear ‘wing’ has a puncture approximately ¾ inches in width.

While I know that none of the above damages was done intentionally, it does bother me. What bothers me the most, however, is the condition of my Athame. For those who do not know, it is a religious item, such as a Catholic Rosary or a Crucifix.

It had originally been stored in the rear of my SUV, away from the other equipment. Upon its confiscation I made certain to denote its religious and spiritual significance to both of the responding officers. Upon request I advised the officers of my religious preference and of the significance of the item. I was advised that it would be properly cared for.

Upon inspection I find that the blade has been etched with the lead officers initials and badge number, as has the sheath.

This seriously upsets me, as at this point I have to physically destroy my Athame. This has been used in my religious observances for over three years, and was a gift from my father. As a rabid Southern Baptist, for him to give a gift (a peace offering), to his son who has strayed from the family faith was a once in a lifetime moment.

Despite the damage to my property, I am still incredibly relieved. I don’t stand to face charges. My property has been returned. And I have been educated, and reminded of basic life lessons, in more ways than I would have thought.

<<CONTINUED IN NEXT POST>>
 
LESSON 1: Do NOT sign the ‘Consent to Search’ form.

My weapon was not in casual view. The officer could not see it upon a passive visual inspection. I was on private property and had not been charged with a crime of any sort. Per the officer himself, at a much later date, part of their training is to make you feel as if ‘Bad Things’ will happen to you if you do not sign the ‘Consent to Search’ form.

Had I not signed the ‘Consent to Search’ form the officer would have had to have viewed the weapon, received a warrant, or found an offense to charge me with prior to searching the vehicle. It would not have stopped the termination from Uniden, as Texas is a ‘Right to Work’ state, but my property would never have been confiscated. More importantly, I wouldn’t have spent 3 months wondering if I was going to be charged with a Class A Misdemeanor.

LESSON 2: Do NOT take the word of anyone you speak to at the DPS.

I spoke to numerous representatives at the Department of Public Safety, both before and after this incident. In eight out of twelve calls I was advised that there is nothing wrong with going to the range after work, leaving your weapon in your vehicle while you’re at work. Unfortunately, as I’d learned, this is not accurate.

LESSON 3: Weapons laws in Texas are exceptionally ‘grey’.

After speaking with numerous attorney’s, three detectives, the former police chief of Haltom City, officers from more police departments than I care to count (from Fort Worth to Dallas), sundry gun store owners, and a bloody Texas Ranger, the best answer that I received regarding my issue was:

“It depends on the officer, the city, and the judge…”

Apparently the laws are vague enough that the Detective who reviews the case has a great deal of leeway in determining whether charges are levied. For example, in my case, I was not charged because I agreed to get a CHL within a reasonable amount of time. Had I refused, he would have charged me with UCW (Unlawful Carry/Concealment of a Weapon, I do believe). Had I irritated him, or he simply felt like charging me, he could have.

Ultimately, the officer has to determine whether he felt I was ‘transporting’ the weapon. The officer has to make the determination as to whether the weapon is properly stored, and whether or not it can be easily reached.

For example: Officer A views the glove box to be proper transportation storage. Officer B feels that it is not. If the Officer A is the respondent, you don’t really have much to worry about. If Officer B responds, you’re flat out of luck.

Please note that I did not have my weapon in the glove box. It was simply an example.

LESSON 4: Legal issues are expensive.

To date, here are the expenses that I have incurred, or will be incurring in the immediate future.

Lost Pay: 820.00 (approximated)
Legal Fees: 1750.00 (approximated)
Replacement Holster: 85.00 (plus shipping)
Refinishing: 250.00 (plus shipping)
Replacement Athame: 45.00
Replacement Magazine: 35.00
--------------------------------------------------
Total: 2985.00

It’s official, I’m broke. I’ve either got to get a job that pays a living wage, or find a job with legal insurance. This got ridiculous, very quickly.

LESSON 5: Fort Worth PD Officers are some of the friendliest in the world.

Given all of the issues, I support the officer’s decision to confiscate my weapon. Had I been in their shoes, I know that I would have confiscated it myself. It was ultimately my own failure to receive concrete validation on the law that led to the situation that I found myself in. I cannot fault them.

Despite the damage to my property, and the extremely bureaucratic, roundabout method used to review my case, the officers I spoke to were ALWAYS exceptionally friendly, helpful, and compassionate. They went out of their way to assist me in almost all cases, up to and including one Detective meeting me for an ‘off the record’ conversation regarding the what I could expect to occur with the processing of my case.

I can honestly see that, had I been in another municipality, the incident could have been resolved in a very different manner.

As a side note, however, the Property Department needs a much larger budget. When I received my property I noted that they were using seriously outdated equipment and methodologies. From what I’ve been advised, because of a lack of funding, most of the methods that they use to process property have remained the same since the late 1980’s.

LESSON 6: Know your rights.

It's pretty much self-explanatory. Had I known my rights, had I gone through the trouble of having absolute verification of the legalities of my actions, I would have never gone through all of this hassle.

Put bluntly, don't trust anyone elses word for it when your butt might be the one on the line.

LESSON 7: Molon labe is not just an internet catch phrase.

I was surprised at how easily my weapon was taken from me. After reviewing local law on the subject, I find it amazing at how easily it could still be taken from me. I was abso-fragging-lutely shocked at how little anyone could tell me regarding the legalities of my case.

I quite honestly thought it could never happen to me. Despite being somewhat less respectful of the law in my younger days, I now consider myself to be a law-abiding citizen. I’ve gone out of my way to attempt to make certain that the actions that I’ve performed are not only legal, but moral as well.

Regardless, were it not for the understanding of a single Fort Worth Detective, I’d be facing a Class A Misdemeanor right now.

I have to admit, to some degree I relied on the local authority to protect my rights as a citizen. I felt strongly about self-defense, but I’d always assumed that these issues were clear cut and clearly defined.

Never, ever, EVER, assume anything. And don’t EVER think ‘It can’t happen to me.’

Even though this was a relatively minor issue, though a somewhat costly one, I’d have to say that I’d have to chalk it up into a positive experience. I know that sounds odd, and it feels odd to say it. But this entire Cluster-FUBAR has proved to have some interesting results.

I’ve learned a lot in a relatively short period of time, as have my friends and my wife. I know now that it is my job, not anyone else’s, to protect my personal liberties. I’m now more resolute in determining what my rights are, and making sure that someone else doesn’t infringe upon them.

My wife, after seeing how readily my weapon was stripped from me, underwent a massive transformation. She’d gotten use to the safety of having a weapon in the house, even though she wouldn’t admit it to herself. And not having one present disturbed her, badly.

As such my darling wife, also known as ‘She who hates firearms in ALL their forms’, aka ‘She who cannot touch one without shivering’, is going to the range. To prove to herself that they are not evil, she starting with my friend’s SIG P-228 .40. She shot one clip, then decided that she could handle it.

Bless her heart, she’s training on a bi-weekly basis with a Ruger 22/45 that the range has, with semi-professional trainers. They’re gradually moving her up the scale, and she getting better on a daily basis. She actually liked the feel of the 1911 that my friend has, and can’t wait to give it a whirl.

This is sad. My wife may end up firing a larger caliber than I do.

She told me the other day that she plans on getting a CHL, so that she doesn’t have to rely on anyone else to defend her. Not that she doubts me, but the sense of safety, though not conscious at the time, was a comforting thing to her. She wants to be able to defend herself when I'm not around, or if the weapon is not in the house. I’m proud of her.

A number of my friends (eight at current count), after seeing how readily my own weapon was seized, have purchased (or are purchasing) weapons of their own. At least four of us, in addition to my wife and I, are getting our CHL's. Several are starting handgun training classes within the next few weeks.

My father, having known all facets of the incident from the start, has undergone an interesting change. The firearms locker, mostly untouched for the last several years, has been reopened. Every weapon is in the process of being cleaned and repaired, where applicable, and all of the ammunition is being replaced. He's going to the range again in an attempt to regain the skills that he used to have.

For the first time in nearly 20 years he's looking at purchasing a new handgun, something that he can carry with the new CHL that he's considering getting.

Personally, after I get back on my feet, I will be buying a lifetime membership to the one organization I've found that fights constantly for the rights of gun owners, the NRA. Local NRA members went out of their way to forward information to me without a moments hesitation. I'll be bringing three others with me when I join.

I'll be making certain that I know my representatives stance on firearms, and will be bloody well sure that I vote for whoever works the most to protect our rights.

You know, I consider myself a somewhat liberal individual. But that A-hole at the Tarrant County District Attorney's Office, the who has the Democratic Bumper Sticker on his brief case, made bloody well sure that I'm going to check every single issue before I vote for anyone from now on. If the words that came out of his mouth is the Democratic party line I know -exactly- how I'll be voting from this day forward.

I want to thank everyone both on and off the board who offered assistance. The advice, the recommendations, and the words of support meant a lot. I know it was a minor issue, but when you're the one who's dealing with it, it looks like the end of the world is looming. It meant the world to me, and I thank you.
 
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Wynterbourne, a question. Was the lawyer worth every penny? I am pleased that you are a free and aware citizen. Well done! Has your attorney considered a violation of confidentiality suit against the staffing company? It is something I would check into.
 
The first lawyer, not in the slightest. He charged a fair amount for 'research' for case, but dumped me as soon as he found out that 'Intelligence' had taken the case.

The second, he was more than worth the money. Ultimately, I did not end up using his services to defend against criminal charges. However, that was due to the kindness of a certain Fort Worth Detective. Had he been in a different mood, I would have had to use the attorney's services to the fullest. Having him prepare, prior to charges being filed, was priceless.

He also explained what I could expect, and gave me realistic expectations as to what I could possibly face.

Not having used his services, I suppose one could say that it was a high expense. Had I needed his services, however, it would have been worth it at twice the price.

The issue with the staffing company, to be honest I don't really know. I know full well that both Uniden and Adecco have violated the law in this instance. Proving it is another matter entirely, though.

The only evidence I have is that of the one member of the Supervisory staff who recieved the call, and we've already found that the call was not recorded at that time. It might be proveable, but it would come down to finding a jury who would believe the guy who got fired for having a gun at work.
 
Wynterbourne and anyone else interested:

What I got from a superficial reading of your post(s) is the following.

1. The police are/were full of it.
2. The company security guard was full of it.
3. The police do not really know what the hell they are doing, which could well amount to a very dangerous situation.

Am I right in concluding that you ended up O.K.? One hopes so.
 
Very sorry to hear about your troubles in this regard. As you obviously learned, cops are not your best buddy even though they might act like it when trying to get your consent to search. The very fact that they asked is evidence they haven't got probable cause.

The issue revolves around 'on or about your person' in this case. Before I got my CHL I always put my gun in the trunk, but since you have an SUV you probably didn't have a choice but to keep it in main cabin. I think in the end you could have beaten the rap since you had it unloaded and in the back, but I'm glad you didn't have to go through all of that.

Glad to hear you are okay and you got your stuff back, even though it is very disappointing how poorly they treated your possessions. IMO they shouldn't have any right to even hold the stuff if you aren't being charged.
 
Wynter, very unfortunate from the start. Worst part is, I can tell just by your threads that you are a stand up guy that went through the hoops to ensure you were lawfully transporting. Only to find out you got bum scoop. What's worse, you couldn't get a definitive answer from any legal entity. Pathetic. Your learning points are very valuable. The one that I highlighted is the most important in my mind:
Put bluntly, don't trust anyone elses word for it when your butt might be the one on the line.
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Do your own research. I won't go into the consensual search, etc b/c that was already covered. Good luck with the job search.
 
How did this all start again? I mean under what circumstance was the Head of Security so diligently looking into your vehicle in the first place. Did you tell somebody that you had a firearm that day? Did someone else overhear you tell somebody? Did the Head of Security have x-ray vision and mind reading capabilities? He must have had some reason for picking your particular vehicle on that particular day.

I agree the whole thing sucks and I feel bad for you.
 
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