On the subject of Kahrs.....Slide release

Again from Kahr: "If you would prefer not to carry a round in the chamber, you may remove a round from the magazine. This alters the angle of the bullet and will allow it to chamber even if you ride the slide."

These are words directly from Kahr. They are saying that the first round of a Kahr magazine is presented at a different angle in a FULL magazine than all the subsequent rounds. Personally, I too have had rounds pop out from rough handling, as you've said, but not in the gun. The above statement from Kahr implies that the angle of the first round of a full magazine is different and increases the chance of having a feeding problem when slingshotting the slide. This has nothing to do with rough handling if you have perfect handling and the bullet is perfectly seated, Kahr's statement implies that the first round of a full magazine is simply at a different angle than the others. Obviously this is not just a suggestion. It is based on an actual problem. Granted, if you are really aggressive or "perfect" (however you want to feel about yourself), it sounds like you can overcome this problem with good form when slingshotting.

I have had this problem with plastic framed Kahrs but not my K9 Elite or a T9. This is just from personal experience.

Here is the link to Kahr's Q&A so you can read it there yourself... or read your manual if you prefer: https://www.kahr.com/faq.asp#q10
 
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I have loaded my two Kahrs both ways, and there isn't a noticeable difference when shooting (as far as FTF's/stoppages). I actually prefer the slide release as that is what I started off on with other pistols.

I will say that a loaded magazine does present a higher than normal angle, but as long as the round is not lose in the magazine, all is well.
 
"If you would prefer not to carry a round in the chamber, you may remove a round from the magazine. This alters the angle of the bullet and will allow it to chamber even if you ride the slide."
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Your point is correct --there is a difference in the angle. I appreciate your close reading of the manual. I missed that when I had a P9 and CM9. The approach Kahr cites above means that if you're carrying a P9, for example, and are intent upon using the SLINGSHOT method, you'd end up with 6 rounds rather than 7+1!! That's a 25% capacity reduction in a gun with already-limited capacity!

PLEASE NOTE -- that different angle doesn't matter IF you use the slide-release. The only time the angle matters is when you use a fully-loaded mag, slingshot the gun, BUT DON'T DO IT PROPERLY!!

I've seen a similar issue discussed with other guns in recent months -- including some of the smaller Witness guns, and some of the smaller 1911s. But it's not limited to small guns. A fully loaded mag can, with some guns, press up strongly against the underside of the slide; that extra resistance from the next round pressing up against the underside of the slide as the first round is being chambered slows the normally rapid push needed to insert the first round into the chamber. That must be a factor with the Kahr, when the shooter RIDES the slide (when using the Slingshot release.)

A Kahr user doesn't have to download a round. He or she can even add a round back to the mag after a round is chambered -- and keep on going -- if he or she will use the slide release lever with future mag exchanges. He or she might also be able to use the "slingshot" method, if he or she can do it without riding the slide. There's apparently less chance of error when using the release lever.

Why not just use the gun as it's intended to be used? Then a perceived design problem simply goes away! :D
 
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True, if you fully load your gun (one in the pipe) or always start from a locked slide, then you shouldn't have any problems. The downloading method is only for those who are starting with a forward slide from an unloaded gun. It's just a little known fact of Kahrs that they are finicky in this fashion. The reason I know all this is because when I first started carrying I kept my Kahr's unloaded and it became an annoying problem. Now, that I have a K9 Elite that doesn't seem to care if I I rack it OR/AND I carry it loaded I have no such problems.

Oh, Walt Sherrill, I believe you'd probably be right in thinking that the tension on the slide is greater with the last round loaded, slowing the slide down and making it harder to catch that funkily-angled first round.

I am not sure, but my Elite has highly polished feed ramps and barrel throat, perhaps making it easier for the first round to load. That and my K9 seems loose. I'd try to confirm this, as I have two barrels, but I had the Kahr factory polish both. I haven't seen feeding issues from a forward slide and full mags with T9's either (though they lack the polished barrel).
 
Polishing the underside of the slide would probably HELP, too.

In a surprising number of guns that area is NOT highly polished. I tend to polish those areas if I notice an issue. It helps.
 
The downloading method is only for those who are starting with a forward slide from an unloaded gun.
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AND (according to the Kahr people, in their manual) if you ride the slide when slingshotting it.

Its not rocket surgery, and very little brain science, folks. The maker recommends using the slide stop to release the slide. Why? Because it is the same, every time you do it. No matter who does it.

"Slingshotting" the slide does work. TRouble is that some people, under some conditions, do not do it correctly. Done incorrectly, it may malfunction.

Since the maker cannot speak for everyone in every situation, they recommend only using the slide stop.

Essentially, the rest of the information, about downloading the mag, is "if you aren't going to do it the way we suggest, AND you have trouble, this might help" advice. Nothing more.

Basically, if you ride the slide, you aren't operating the pistol correctly. NO gun can be held responsible for failures if the user does not operate it correctly.

The angle of first round in the mag is a red herring (as far as how one operates the slide). Don't sweat it.
 
Glocks and XD's don't suffer the same problem with a fully loaded mag. I've never seen anybody have a problem like the problem that occurs with Kahrs. Specifically, there is, as I've mentioned above, a difference with Kahrs: It is harder to properly slingshot a Kahr with a loaded magazine than other pistols... or it's more unforgiving. It's different enough that Kahr admits to a difference in the angle of presentation of the first round.

Of the some 4 Kahr's I've owned and the 7 Kahrs I've shot, about 2 of those guns were especially finicky. I'm pretty sure it's not just a case of "get better at it!" because Kahr has decided to write at length about it in their manual of arms and in their Q/A.

Oh, and finally, it is indeed part of the battery of arms of Kahrs, not just a friendly suggestion. From page 16 of Kahr's Operating Instructions:

"Insert the magazine into the magazine well at the base of the grip until the magazine catch engages fully.

Pull the slide fully to the rear and lock it back using the Slide Stop. Next push down on the Slide Stop to chamber the first round into the barrel. Do not chamber a round by pulling back on the slide and letting go of the slide. This may cause the slide to not go fully into battery."

This is not just a friendly suggestion, because Kahr knows the presentation (and/or pressure) of the first round is different. It's a significant enough of an issue where they tell you not to do it at all in their manual of arms, and further, they come up with a fix for people who insist on doing it anyway: downloading.
 
It is harder to properly slingshot a Kahr with a loaded magazine than other pistols... or it's more unforgiving.
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I've had no such problem with the CM9 or MK9. Slingshotting is reliable if you properly pull the slide all the way to the rear and release (just like an AK will only properly charge if you pull the bolt all the way to the rear and release). The recoil spring weight on these small guns is heavier than a full-sized pistol, but that is just the nature of the beast.
 
Patient: "Doctor, my arm hurts when I do this...."

Doctor: "Don't do that."

Seems to be the best response for people who have problems slingshotting a Kahr: "Don't do that."

Or, if you do, don't complain.
 
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Guess I've just inadvertently been doing everything right. I haven't had any clambering, or magazine issues with my CM9 while using either way chamber the first round. Like the 200 round break-in requirement mentioned in another thread, I don't remember reading this in the owner's manual either. Guess I need to get it out, and take another look. Just haven't needed to because it's been 100% reliable from the first round.:D
 
My Kahr P380 broke right off the bat, but Kahr promptly repaired it paying shipping both ways.
It's been reliable since.
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Wish I could say the same here too. In four trips to the factory, Kahr replaced the frame twice and every part/component except the bare slide at least once, and it still has trouble.
 
I have a pm9 and while kahr recommends using the slide release, I rack the slide occasionally and have never had a problem chambering the round. I have also polished the feed ramp and a few other parts. However, I always use the slide lock if I'm going to be carrying. The gun is so much bette IMO than other options so it's an easy thing to do.
 
I had a PM9 that required the same thing or it would jam. Loved the gun but that made it too finicky for me so I sold it and got a PPS. Happy with the PPS.
 
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